DANIEL: [00:00:00] Hey there, space makers. I'm Daniel Sih, joined by my good friend and co-host Matt Bain. This is the third season of The Space Makers, a podcast to help you live an intentional, meaningful life more than a podcast. This podcast course will help you get unstuck in one area of life, one step at a time by helping you shift the way you live and work big thanks to our sponsor, bulk Nutrients.

DANIEL: Enjoy a 5% discount on protein powders and health supplements for orders over $45. At bulk nutrients.com au, just enter the code Space makers,

NARRATOR: the space makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

DANIEL: Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Space Makers Podcast, a podcast to help you make space for an intentional and meaningful life.

DANIEL: I'm here with my co-host, Matt Bain. Welcome. Hey, Dan. How you doing? Good. It's good to have you back here. It's just great to be back. It is good to be here. And we are talking about how to make space. To get [00:01:00] unstuck for a surprising second act. So today, Matt, we're gonna talk about life being a trade off and what it looks like to understand life as being holistic, interconnected, and intertwined.

DANIEL: And that's actually really important when it comes to getting unstuck. I. Yes. Yeah, yeah, indeed. There's a lot there. Yeah. So it's, I mean, because it's easy to get fixated on one area of life, right? Mm-hmm. You, you feel stuck. You, you feel like one domain of life isn't going well, your finances, relationships, maybe your health career, and it kind of permeates all the other areas because, well, we, life is interconnected in all the different domains of life intersect.

DANIEL: So we wanna talk about how do you actually. Unpack some of those ideas and reflect on the trade offs that you have to make in life, but also to make wise decisions about what to do next to get unstuck. One small step at a time.

MATT: Yeah, that's it. Look, and this is really important to me in, in the context of this, of this podcast, like this idea of naming up and being explicit.

MATT: And upfront about trade offs. Yeah. And that being a series of trade offs being part of regular life. Because like we talked about season one and [00:02:00] season two, one of the pillars of everything that we try to present on this pod course is realism. We want to keep it realistic. Right. And so, I know it can be often uncomfortable truth, but this idea of life involving trade offs, I think that's part, a necessary part of keeping it realistic.

DANIEL: Yeah, absolutely. And look, the, the beauty of limitations is if you embrace 'em. And accept them. Well, then you have more options. But if you try to push against unrealistic limitations or trade offs, well that's when you kind of stay stuck. So we're gonna talk about that and talk about how to move forward.

MATT: That's my, yeah. Yeah. Limitations, meaning more options. Just when Zen. That's great. That's good Zen. That's good. We'll, we'll trademark that one. Yeah. So last episode, we introduced a framework for this entire season that's hopefully, uh, hopefully catchy and memorable. And it's called Shift. I thought you were gonna forget it for a minute.

MATT: I,

DANIEL: I almost

MATT: see it was just being

DANIEL: put on the spot. Nah, shift. Shift. Great. So shift stands for, uh, selector domain. Okay. And so, you know, find a domain in your life and work out how it interconnects. We're gonna [00:03:00] talk about that this episode. Uh, the h is to harness your strengths. So we're gonna talk about the importance of focusing on what works.

DANIEL: Uh, I imagine multiple paths. We're gonna talk about pathway thinking, uh, and how that helps you. Uh, the F is forge new actions, and we're gonna talk about the importance of acting away to new forms of thinking. And the t is about traveling alongside with others. Uh, but let's look at the s Let's talk about.

DANIEL: One domain in life. Let's help our listeners work out how they can interconnect all the different aspects of their life and to make a really smart decision about one habit to shift in one domain of life over the next nine to 10 episodes.

MATT: So look, we'd be encouraging people to hang around to the very end of this episode 'cause we are actually gonna be presenting an exercise called the Five Capitals that's gonna help you lock into a particular domain in life to start shifting.

DANIEL: Matt, before we dive into the content for today's episode, we always try to [00:04:00] explain what we did between episodes par, partly 'cause you and I want to get unstuck, but partly 'cause I think it's important to do something with this stuff and this forces us to do it. But hopefully it encourages our listeners to do something each episode, which is.

DANIEL: What we're about.

MATT: So what was the activity? The activity was we asked people, ourselves included, to take a five minute, roughly five minute stroll, preferably outside, and think about that awesome analogy that you gave last episode. Hmm. About. Halftime in the game, you're on the sidelines, you're getting the oranges, and you're really disappointed basically with how the game has proceeded and your performance so far.

MATT: And think of that as an opportunity to identify where in life you feel stuck. Mm-hmm. So why do you think like the gamers a working out for you. And why? And most importantly, on top of that, associate a feeling. Mm-hmm. You so, and kind of like sit with that feeling. So this is all about if you like, problem identification, trying to work out where in all of my life do I most feel stuck?

MATT: Mm-hmm. And why? And what does that feel like? [00:05:00] 

DANIEL: Yeah. So look, what did you come up, I assume

MATT: went for a walk and you had a bit of time to think about this. So first of all, let me preface this by saying there are, there, there was obviously more than what I shouldn't say. Obviously there was more than one area where I felt stuck, right?

MATT: Oh no. It's

DANIEL: obvious to me. No.

MATT: Yeah. So. Uh, I, I identified that my, where, so where I feel stuck is with my time and my energy and my head space. So I think I could bundle all that under the heading of overcommitted. I'm over committ in my life, so across too many different areas, context, um, and. In the face of wonderful opportunities, which I should be more grateful for.

MATT: I have said yes to too many things and I want to give, you know, more than just an adequate amount of time and energy, head space to each of those all good causes. I want to do a really good job at all of them, uh, but there are just too many for me to actually be able to do a really good job at all of them.

MATT: Yeah, so that's, uh, and again, like that's across, you know, family, work, hobbies, friends. Everything. So why all [00:06:00] of life?

DANIEL: What, what makes over commitment a problem for you though? Like what, what makes that stuck?

MATT: Yeah. Yeah. So, so it stuck because I know again, that I've, that I've a, made these commitments and I know that I've got these opportunities, but I also know realistically I can't deliver.

MATT: On each and all of those. So I know that there's pain points coming down the road, both for myself and these people, and causes that I've committed to. Like for starters side, I know there's pain points coming. B, it it feels like my, my integrity is kind of compromised. And c, to go back to our original question of like what feeling is stuck leading to the feeling for me is now I think it's almost become one of, um, like ambivalence.

MATT: So. I now almost like the, the temptation for me is that I, I, I, I almost throw my hands in the face of this and say, it's all too hard, there's too much overwhelm, so I'm just gonna let the chips fall where they may. And be passive in the face of that. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes. That's the feeling. I've almost just like enticing passivity, so I've got too much on, 'cause I [00:07:00] chose to have too much.

MATT: Right. Okay. And I chose to have too much on via making a bunch of commitments. But now the face that's like, well even though I've set all this stuff up, it's like, well it's, it's all too hard. And that's why it's stuck for me. 'cause I feel, you know, and overwhelmed is strong is a strong word, but I feel like I don't really know, I don't have a firm handle.

MATT: I don't have a firm handle, and this is mixing our metaphors on which lever I should be pulling next. I don't have a good idea as to what, to where the map is going. Yeah. So I dunno what the new destination looks like and I dunno how to take the first step there.

DANIEL: Yeah. Okay. No, I can see that being, um, painful.

DANIEL: Especially if it's a pattern and you want to not disappoint people or you know. Not follow through on the stuff that matters.

MATT: Yeah, yeah. That's right. And plus, I mean, all this stuff is, is great opportunities. Mm-hmm. It's fun stuff. It's worthwhile stuff.

DANIEL: There's

MATT: too much. Yeah.

DANIEL: Yeah. Just too much. Yeah. No, that's good.

DANIEL: I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing. Uh, so we'll work on some of that. Well, you might wanna work on some of that. You, you won up for me. I can't help you, but, um. You're gonna work on it, hopefully with some of the shift framework. Yeah. And you know, the aim is you'll be a little bit less stuck and [00:08:00] have a bit more of a plan, know what led us to pull by the end of

MATT: it.

MATT: Yeah. And that's a really good reminder of what we're. What we are hoping people will join us in isn't fixing everything by the end of 10 weeks. So using that analogy again, it's not about getting to the destination, uh, that our new maps have identified. Well, you're not, you didn't win the grand final in the second half back on the field.

MATT: Yeah, that's right. It's just, yeah. Yeah. It's making some progress, some

DANIEL: steps forward. Mine was a bit more difficult and I've already chatted with you about this off, you know, off camera. Mm-hmm. Uh, because you know, like, I suppose you and I have a commitment where we wanna be. Real about what we're stuck in.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. Or you know, just real generally, we didn't wanna find something that sounded stuck, you know, that that wasn't real. You know, like I can easily say I feel stuck, you know, in my business. Mm-hmm. Because I've, I've, I've got too much on and I'm running outta time. And look, there is a lot of complexity in what I do and I find my work amazing and joyful and stressful and complex, but I, I don't feel stuck 'cause I actually have a plan.

DANIEL: Yeah. Um, so yeah, look, the honest area of where I feel stuck is, is a bit more [00:09:00] eclectic. It's the inner life for me and my personal spirituality, which might sound unusual to speak about on air, but, um, it is genuinely a, a tension. Like that's what keeps me up at night. And so I suppose for context, um, I didn't come from a religious family at all.

DANIEL: Uh, you know, made a decision to become a Christian through a whole lot of supernatural, you know, quiet. Life-changing experiences when I was young, you know, about 12, 13, uh, and just my faith, my inner life, uh, has actually been a huge part of my life for a long, long time, to the point where I even became a pastor for a number of years or a decade in the end, part-time.

DANIEL: But now that I'm not working. In any religious capacity, and, you know, I've kind of left my traditional understanding of my, even my community, I, I just find myself quite torn about how can I express something which is deeply central to who I am. And my faith and also a commitment to community. But I'm, I'm also, it also feels like work every time I step into some type of church [00:10:00] community, uh, it's kind of an unusual situation.

DANIEL: I was thinking, you know, when, when I used to be a physio, I wouldn't go and then volunteer three or four hours a week in a hospital. Mm-hmm. That would feel like work. And yet even if I sit in a pew or just join and sing songs with people, it just feels so much like my old life and I, I just can't work out how to reconcile how to do.

DANIEL: Faith anymore. But I also can't put it aside 'cause it's deeply ingrained into who I am. And actually I, I want it to be, I can't imagine life and I wouldn't wanna imagine life differently. I don't have a crisis of faith as such. Hmm. I just dunno how to express it. And so there's this dissonance, is that the word between my deep held beliefs in community and faith and the reality that.

DANIEL: Actually every time I open the Bible or go sing songs with someone, it just doesn't float my boat anymore. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I'm trying to work out what that looks [00:11:00] like for, for me and my family. Uh, so it's not just an individual thing. And so, yeah. I dunno, I've gone on a bit of a long winded description, but, um, I think about the, the think, the thing about being stuck is it's hard to put words to where you're stuck and what feels stuck to me, I.

DANIEL: Won't feel stuck

MATT: to others. I mean, your stuckness is your own, you know, that doesn't belong to anyone else. And that's, so that makes sense that it is so that perhaps other people won't be able to relate to it quite so readily. Um, and I think also for what it's worth, the fact that, again, the, the problem itself is still a little bit vague and fuzzy and ambiguous is again, indicative of the fact that it's, it's real stuckness and maybe for, again, for what it's worth, some people I think will be able to relate.

MATT: Purely on the level of I used to have this thing that was really important in my whole of life. Mm-hmm. I was really passionate about it, convicted, it gave meaning to my life. I undertook a role that incorporated that into what I did for money. So I [00:12:00] became a, a profession and then I left that role after a long time in that professional role and lo and behold, I've still got that a kind of original passion and conviction for the thing.

MATT: But it's now has this, almost like this, it's got a hangover. Or professionalism still attached to it when I try to engage with it. Mm.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. And then probably the other thing is on top of that is whenever you have a major shift, it is an identity shift. And sometimes those identity shifts take a long time.

DANIEL: Yeah. Particularly when you don't know where to head to. Mm. In how you see yourself. Mm. Or the expression of you at a deep level. Yeah. Uh, so hopefully there's some resonance. Yeah. If not, well, hey, it's just a weird thing that I'm going through, and hopefully I get unstuck by the end of it.

MATT: Uh, so, uh, the former pastor known is Dan C Tell us, tell us where we need go next. We are gonna talk about life being a trade off. Yeah.

DANIEL: Uh, and on that [00:13:00] note, we need to talk about how to use a burner Yeah. Burner. So tell us about that.

MATT: Yeah. Sorry, I'm just momentarily straight. I just thought the ex pastor would be a great name for a band.

MATT: Uh, yeah. So, right, but right now I, I wanna talk about the for burner theory. So this is a great tool. Okay. So that's the first thing to kind of point out and be really clear about. We're talking about a analytic. Tool and the point of this tool is to help people get an idea of work-life balance. Yeah. And this was, um, well it first came to our attention via, uh, the great, um, James Clear.

MATT: So before he got mega famous with Atomic Habits, this came out via one of his blog posts.

DANIEL: Yeah. I feel like, you know, a fanboy that can say, oh, well I knew him before. Yeah. Before it was famous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was on this blog first

MATT: amongst 10,000 other people. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is before it became mega famous.

MATT: Um, so the four burners, so he said, life can be, all of life can be conceptualized as four burners on a gas hot plate. Okay? So you've got four burners going and they are health, family, friends, and work. So they're your four burners. And the point that he was [00:14:00] making is that it is impossible for anyone to have those four burners all simultaneously cranked up at the same time.

MATT: Okay. So in, in other words, you cannot meet your percent, your potential in all four domains at once. Mm-hmm. And you're talking about cranking right up? I'm talking about, you're talking about,

DANIEL: you know, like you can't be hyper successful in work. Yeah. Have an amazing family. That's right. Know and be

MATT: mega healthy, like running like your multiple Ironmans every year, da, da, da, you can't know.

MATT: So, so et cetera.

DANIEL: And then the other one was friendship. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Friendships. Yeah. Yeah, friendship. Just have a,

MATT: you know, a million friends and

DANIEL: have great,

MATT: yeah, that's right. That's right. So he said you can't do it all at once. You can't do all at once. So he says, like, his theory is, is that to be successful, like generally successful in life, you are gonna have three going pretty well and one turned right down.

MATT: If you just wanna be even like moderately successful. Hmm. If you wanna be super successful. Then you need to have two turned all the way down and only two cranked up at at a time. So

DANIEL: it's a hard reality or at least, I mean, what do you, what do you think about his thoughts on that?

MATT: Well, I think, uh, I don't have to think so [00:15:00] much about his thoughts 'cause he actually told us like what his thoughts are.

MATT: So that many use had his thoughts, which I tend, I prepared this one earlier. Yeah. So I kind of tend to agree with his, his initial thoughts is that, uh, if you are someone with even like a moderate degree of ambition, you think, come on man, like that applies to the 99% of the population that doesn't apply to someone like me.

MATT: There's gotta be some way that I can hack. This, right. There's gotta be some work around. And so a clever person like me would say, what about if I just like to some degree bundle up a couple of um. Hot plates at once. Right. So what about, you know, for example, if I think well, um, you know, like, uh, I'm worried about my physical health.

MATT: What about if I take some of the, the money that I'm making? 'cause I'm cranking it out in my professional life, and I'll take some of that money and I'll just direct it towards my physical health and I'll like. Hire a trainer and kind of outsource it. And his point is, is that in theory, little hacks like that can work, but every time you kind of outsource something like that, you are giving away some of your autonomy.

MATT: You're giving away some of the natural interest that you have in that, and like it's gonna have a pretty low ceiling. Yeah. You won't still be able to [00:16:00] reach your ultimate potential in all four domains, all four burners at once, even if you outsource some of it. And the, the greater realization that he came to is that even that desire.

MATT: On his part and mine has say there's gotta be work around. There's gotta be some kind of hack. There's gotta be a way I can bundle this all up. He would say all that is just trying to dodge the uncomfortable reality that we are finite creatures. Hmm. So we have limits there. It is like the way that we design made whatever you wanna phrase it as means that it is impossible for us to have all those four burners cranked up.

MATT: Full heat at the same time. So the

DANIEL: very desire to actually find a hack Yeah. So that you can burn all four at the same time is a lack of confrontation or acceptance of the reality that we have of finite life. Yeah. That's where finite, yeah. The time is finite that we have limits. Yeah. And actually the very pushing against that constantly shows some lack of maturity into how life works and, and, and also limits your ability to see possibilities because of that as well.

MATT: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. 'cause instead of saying, well, I've got these [00:17:00] boundaries like to work, you know, a amongst, I'm just gonna pretend for a while that there are no boundaries. No hard parameters. Again, I can just make something outta nothing here, you know? Yeah. And, but again, like it's, you know, it's perfectly understandable.

MATT: Um, it makes sense to me. Like you see it all the time. People are constantly trying to like bundle up work life and friend life by perhaps, I don't know, like getting your friend to come and do a podcast with you as part of your party. Professional life and finance life as well, is perfect. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's common enough.

MATT: So, um, yeah. So that's makes sense. So that's like the four burners. Okay. The four burners theory. Yeah. Yeah.

DANIEL: And I like the, I mean, I've written a lot on limits. Mm-hmm. For example, for my book Spacemaker, I've got a whole chapter about mm-hmm. Life giving limits. Yeah. Uh, you know, I love the story about Dr.

DANIEL: Zeus and how he wrote. Uh, green eggs and ham based on a bet. Mm-hmm. So his, I think his publisher basically bet Dr. Zeus that he couldn't write a high quality children's book with only 50 simple words. Mm-hmm. And because of that fixed limit Hmm. He was forced to get extra creative [00:18:00] and. You know, I think the first or second most popular children's book in history Yeah.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. Was created. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. With 50 distinct words that were simple and easy to read from. Mm-hmm. Particular vocabulary set. Yes. Uh, and there's lots of stories about this. When you add limits, you actually find greater creativity. Mm-hmm. Uh, I, I think there's something in this as well that when we accept that we actually can't have all four burners.

DANIEL: On at once. Not only can we accept reality and therefore decide what our values are and what we can do at in any one time, but we can also get creative in how we try to approach it. Yeah, I

MATT: think like the flip side of that, so yeah, I know like for every Dr. Seuss and the White Stripes, pretty much like same kind of deal, like intentional limits.

MATT: In order Es had to write a book with 50 distinct words. They, uh, you know, drums and guitar for the first couple of albums. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's gonna be like another a hundred, 200, maybe a thousand people who say, okay, like I'll accept the limits and it'll go somewhat well. But it still won't give you the same taste of full blown success that you associate with your potential being fully realized.

MATT: Hmm. [00:19:00] You know, like it's, so, I think there's still no way of dodging that again. Doing okay. In three or four domains of life is still gonna look different and feel different from excelling, just excelling in one particular domain of life.

DANIEL: Yeah. I really like this quote from Betty Freedom. Mm-hmm. Uh, who is a late American feminist writer and activist.

DANIEL: She said, you can have it all. Just not at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's probably the caveat I want to put on the, for burner theory. 'cause it sounds a bit depressing that I can't have all four going at the, you know, same time. But I actually think if you look at the seasonality of life mm-hmm.

DANIEL: You know, we live a long life. Uh, you, you can, you know, have it all, you can have a lot of things successful in your life. But not all at the same time. Yeah. So you can't be fantastic at raising little kids and have a kick ass executive career. Mm-hmm. And have an amazing body and be, you know, doing amazing things financially.

DANIEL: Yeah. But mm-hmm. You can have a season of life where you are amazing at raising kids and you turn a few other burners down, your friendships aren't as good. Yeah. And maybe your [00:20:00] body's not as fit as you, you'd like. Mm-hmm. You can have a season where you can just learn lots and maybe get fit, but. You know, your kids are a different age, you know?

DANIEL: Yeah. Does that make sense? So over the seasons of your life, it's possible to, uh, have a ful have fulfillment in multiple domains at least. Yeah. But just not all at the same time. Yeah. And I think that's encouraging because for me it's like, well, it's okay that my friendships aren't as good as mm-hmm. I'd like 'em to be, even though they're better than last season.

DANIEL: They, they genuinely are, wow, this stuff works. That's great. This stuff actually works, you know? But at the same time, I'm like, but. I've got a lot of other things going on. Mm-hmm. And those burners are up. Mm-hmm. Therefore, I have to accept that other burners have to be down.

MATT: Yeah.

DANIEL: Yeah. And I think that's where acceptance and limitations can be really helpful.

DANIEL: Yeah.

MATT: And maybe just to add to that, you, you and I have thought of, um, at length about this idea of like a minimal effective dose Yeah. As well, or I've heard it described as a maintenance, um, in the sense that, again. You can probably get away with having a couple burners turned up really high. Mm-hmm. But you probably always want to have [00:21:00] all your burners on, like, at least, you know, just at least a little bit.

MATT: Um, so you need to be able to work out a way when it comes to work-life balance in those four areas that you are maintaining, say, like those most critical, critical of relationships. So maybe you can let some acquaintances, some social networks be for want of a better term, neglected for a season. Again, if you're really invested in family, but at the same time the closest people to you, like your top.

MATT: Two or three friends, assuming that you have like two or three like best friends, you wanna be keeping them close enough as well. Yeah. So there has to be this idea of maintenance or minimal effective dose as well. Yeah. Okay. As well. And so

DANIEL: even if you decide that for this season, I'm gonna really go for my career mm-hmm.

DANIEL: Or I'm really gonna invest in my kids, I'm really gonna invest in, you know, like a hobby or a sport. Yeah. It, it can't, well it, it can't be it, it can be actually the expense of everything else. If you're an Elon Musk. Yeah. But you have to accept that then I don't have any healthy relationships. Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't have a normal life.

DANIEL: Yeah. I have an unbalanced successful life. But for the majority of people, particularly around what makes you [00:22:00] actually happy, you need a minimal viable dose for friendship, family. Health, finances career. Yeah. Uh, if you don't, you're gonna suffer. And that's, that's not a wise choice for most of us. Yeah.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. So, why don't we pause for a moment. We've had a lot of conversations about life being a trade off, about different domains, about seasonality. Uh, what stands out to you? You know, what's an idea, uh, that connects? Why don't we give our listeners 30 seconds of silence as we normally do?

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. To just pause and reflect on what connects with them. What do they agree with, what do they disagree with? Uh, but how does this idea that life is finite and that life is a trade off, how does that impact their decisions and their choices if they feel. Stuck.[00:23:00] 

DANIEL: Okay, so hopefully that silence was useful. I love reflecting maybe, and I'm an, I'm an introvert, but, oh, we hear so much information. It's so good to pause and think about how can we apply what we're hearing and. [00:24:00] Allow to make space in our lives. Mm. Uh, but let's take that theory and let's get super practical and we want to introduce a framework called the Five Capitals.

DANIEL: It's from, uh, a book by Mike Bre and Ben Stern key called Economics. Uh, it's a kind of a, a quirky little book in the sense of, I don't think it's very popular. It is a religious book. But, um, I found it really, really interesting talking about how can you use the world of economics. To actually apply to our broader domains of life, which is why they call it economics.

DANIEL: Ocos is a Greek word for household. Um, and I've found this a super helpful framework for clients that I coach. Yep. Yeah. And we both, we both found it helpful. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of helping people to have some type of practical framework to look at the various domains in their life. And have a language to work out well, how do they work out?

DANIEL: What burners to turn up, what burners to turn down and, and how to actually use strategies [00:25:00] to implement that, which is really helpful if you feel stuck and you wanna move forward in more.

MATT: Yeah.

DANIEL: Yeah. That's good. Um, I really like the fact that you stressed, this has been field tested. Now this is, this is one of the practical activities we almost always do when we do reset coaching with people or something similar, which I call Lifescape Blueprint, you know, and, and the overarching foundation is the foundation for productivity.

DANIEL: 'cause productivity isn't about just getting as much work done as you can. It's about having a thoughtful and considered approach to how you shape your time. In alignment with your broader values and belief sets, which is why I think this type of activity is helpful. So the concept of the five capitals is that there are five capitals in each of our lives.

DANIEL: Okay? So there's financial capital, intellectual capital relation, uh, physical capital, relational capital, and spiritual capital. And we can approach all the different domains of our life in a kind of an economic sense. Not that we wanna always do this, but for the, for the idea of selling, spending, divesting, uh.

DANIEL: Investing money, we can actually take that idea and [00:26:00] actually think about how it might apply to different capitals. So do you wanna explain the five capitals and how you might translate the idea of finance into other areas?

MATT: Yeah, so starting from the top, we've got financial capital. So really how much money.

MATT: Do we have to invest? Nice and simple. Um, obviously pretty obviously like the currency for this one, for the financial capital is gonna be money and physical assets. Yeah. Pretty self expungement. Next we've got intellectual capital, so how much creativity and knowledge do we have at hand? Yeah. And the currency for this is concepts and ideas.

MATT: Yeah. Making sense so far? Yep. Okay, great. And then we've got physical capital also that pretty self-explanatory. How much. Time and energy. Do we have, and I actually, I mean I said this pretty obvious, but I really like the idea of time being bundled up there as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So time and energy.

DANIEL: Yeah.

DANIEL: Okay. And that would include both, you know, probably your mental health, your physical health, the energy you have. Like that's all encompassed in this area of physical coverage. Yeah, that's

MATT: right. But also hours and hours. Yeah. And hours again. [00:27:00] So that's the time element. So hours as well as health. Yep.

MATT: Holistic health. Yeah. Next we have relational capital, which is like a, a bit of a buzz term these days. So how much like relational equity? Do we have to kind of move around and invest? And for this one, the currency is gonna be family and friends. Yeah.

DANIEL: Actually, I've often heard people talk about, you know, my relationship bucket's a bit low, or I'm in the black.

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah, yeah. With this friendship, you know, so we kind of take that economic language and we do apply it into, yeah, yeah. It's true. Yeah. Uh, but you know, this, this is doing it as an activity. Mm-hmm. A specific activity to help you assess your capital and your current and future

MATT: state.

DANIEL: Yeah.

MATT: Uh, and the last one is spiritual capital.

MATT: So how much spiritual equity. Do we have to invest? And the currency for this is things like wisdom, self understanding, internal security. Okay.

DANIEL: Yeah, that sounds good. So the way in which you see yourself, the internal world. Uh, so you take those five capitals. Okay. So your, uh, financial, intellectual, physical, relational, and spiritual capital.

DANIEL: Yeah. And so, Mike, Bre and turnkey give us a very [00:28:00] practical framework for how to assess current state, future state, and therefore the actions you would like to take to work out. Where you would wanna invest in the next season. So that's what I wanna go through next. Okay, cool. Uh, now this activity is a lot easier to see than to hear, so if you want to see it, uh, we have a step-by-step guide so you can literally work your way through it like I do with my coaching clients.

DANIEL: It's completely free. It's at spacemaker do au slash S3, so S3 for season three. All of our practical activities for season three will be at Space makers au slash s3. I would really highly encourage you to sign up. Download the PDFs and actually have this as an activity for you to print out or do online and actually do yourself.

MATT: I think it's critical for this one.

DANIEL: Okay. So to move onto this activity, it has three steps that, uh, we want to talk about in this episode, and then we'll talk about a fourth step in the next step episode. It has [00:29:00] three steps. The first step is to work out your current state or your current reality. So essentially, if you were to look at your five capitals and have some type of, uh, consistent.

DANIEL: Measure to identify how much of each capital you have in your life. It's almost like how much each burn has turned up or turned down. Well, this is what you're gonna do, okay? So we recommend that you, um, you use a subjective measure of 17 gold bars. Okay? Now, I dunno why green chose 17, but I think it's a random number.

DANIEL: So it actually makes you think about where you put the gold bars according to your different capitals. So literally right down the capitals, you know, from the top to bottom, financial, intellectual, physical. Relational, spiritual. Yep. Write those down and then literally draw little kind of rectangles to represent gold bars.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. And you get 17 all up. Mm-hmm. And you get to distribute them across your current reality set. Yeah. So in one example you might say that, uh, my current reality is I've got seven gold bars worth of financial capital because I've got a fair bit of money in the bank. Uh, I have [00:30:00] four bars of intellectual capital 'cause I've got a degree and I've read a bit of stuff, but it's maybe not as you know.

DANIEL: Well invested in as I'd like. Uh, I've got two gold bars of physical capital because I've sat on the couch and eaten. Doritos for the last kind of year. Uh, I've got three gold bars of relational capital, so that's not going as well as I'd like. Um, I could invest more in friends and family and one gold bar of spirituality because I don't even know how to sell meditation.

DANIEL: Okay. Uh, that's

MATT: good. That's good. And just to be clear, like 17 is relatively abstract. It's. But it's, it's a number and you need to have a number. And 17 is a tried and true number. Absolutely. So that's

DANIEL: step one.

MATT: Hmm.

DANIEL: Once you've defined your 17 gold bars against your five capitals, you have a bit of a sense of, oh, okay.

DANIEL: This is the weighting of my current reality. Cool. Yeah. The second step is to look at the movement or direction of your capital growth. Okay. 'cause that's gonna give you some information and input that you need for the next section. So by movement, what I want to do is look at each of those capitals and ask, are my [00:31:00] capitals going up?

DANIEL: So you draw an upward arrow, are my capitals going sideways? So there's no movement, which is a sideways arrow. Is are my capitals going down a downward arrow, meaning that I'm depreciating or losing out on those capitals. So in the example I gave previously, let's say your seven gold bars are growing because you continue to put more and more money into, you know, superannuation investments, other portfolios, uh, let's say your intellectual capital is static.

DANIEL: So you have four gold bars, but you're not necessarily doing a much to invest or divest. Yeah. Uh, the physical capital is diminishing. So you have two gold bars, but it's getting worse 'cause you're just still sitting on the couch. Uh, your relational capital is diminishing with three gold bars. 'cause again, you are neglecting people because you're working so much and your spiritual capital is static as well.

DANIEL: 'cause it's at one, you're not going anywhere. Does that make sense? Um, where that's helpful is it will help you to work out the likely trajectory of what comes next. If a, if an arrow is pointing down, it's gonna be harder to turn up. If an arrow is going up, it's [00:32:00] easier to continue going up.

MATT: Okay. So do you mind please just try to summarize this?

MATT: Yeah. Like am I sure got clear in my head. Okay. So I've allocated my 17 gold bars to reflect my current reality across those five capitals. Yeah. So that's step one. Step two is now, after reflecting upon that, I just don't think about where they currently are, but I think. I consider if I do nothing, if I don't change anything.

MATT: This is the trajectory for each of those five capitals as well. That's right. And

DANIEL: typically the trajectory is based on your habits and this is where we're gonna get to. Cool. In terms of getting unstuck. So your trajectory might be going. Up. Mm-hmm. If you are regularly putting in a few hundred dollars into the bank mm-hmm.

DANIEL: Or into some type of share portfolio. Yeah. Because your habit indicates a growth in that capital. Mm-hmm. Your capital might go down if you regularly sit on the couch and you all you think about every day is the fact that you're putting on weight and you need to exercise, but you haven't done it. Well, there's no habits that support that.

DANIEL: And actually the habits that you are doing are supporting a decline in health, basically me on [00:33:00] autopilot and

MATT: running on habits.

DANIEL: That's it. Absolutely. That's good. Okay, so that's the second step. Yep. Movement and direction. Cool. So the next step is future reality. Let's use a timeline of one year into the future.

DANIEL: Most people can do that. Okay. So if you've got your gold bars and your movement or direction of activity now. We're gonna recreate what our future scenario might be in an ideal future, recognizing that you don't have endless capacity, you still have finite capacity, so you have the ability to grow a certain level of.

DANIEL: Capitals a certain number of capitals, but you don't have an infinite amount of ability to grow capitals, and so we're gonna give you 10 extra gold bars. So your 17 gold bars, which you have in your current reality now become 27 gold bars for your future reality. I've modified the activity slightly from the book to make it a bit less.

DANIEL: I find it works better with coaching clients. But essentially you have 10 extra gold bars. How are you gonna distribute [00:34:00] them in a way that represents what really matters for you, where you would like your future state to be?

MATT: Cool. So I have my 17 up. I've allocated those. I've, I've identified my current present state and the trends if you like.

MATT: Now I've got 10. How do I best allocate these? Over the next 12 months. Great.

DANIEL: So now what you do is you write down the same five capitals. Mm-hmm. You draw the same distribution of current reality gold bars, the 17, but now I want you to add another 10 across the five capitals. So in this example we'll say that actually we need to slow down the growth of financial capital.

DANIEL: Maybe don't get rid of it altogether 'cause it's still important for us. So we're gonna add two gold bars out of our 10. So we have nine in total. So from seven to nine gold bars in financial capital. Uh, we are not gonna add any gold bars to intellectual capital 'cause in this stage of life we accept that we probably don't have to invest really heavily in learning just because of our current season of life.

DANIEL: So we leave it at four gold bars for intellectual capital. But because our [00:35:00] diminishing physical health was at two gold bars, we really want to turn that around. 'cause we realize that's an important domain to work on. That might be where we feel stuck the most. Mm-hmm. So we're gonna try to get to adding four gold bars and ending with six in total.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. So from two to to to six, which is a big change, particularly since you are, you've got a downward diminishing arrow. So that's not an easy change. Yeah, so the same is true with relational capital. Let's say I want to go from three to five gold bars, I add two. And similarly with spiritual capital, I want to go from one to three gold bars.

DANIEL: Uh, and that's adding two as well. So all up I've added 10 gold bars and I've got a new state or a, a future reality, and I've got my current reality. And now I've got a kind of a map for where I would like to invest some time. And build new habits to try to make that future reality a reality. Yes. Yeah. So how do you get from here to your desired future?

DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. So the whole point of this entire activity isn't to end up with some lovely gold bars on a piece of paper. I mean, the whole [00:36:00] point is to give you a tool that you can reflect on where you are stuck. And maybe why you're stuck and to give you some data to help you think, this is where I wanna invest my time and energy.

DANIEL: And in particular, to think about what is the most critical domain for me in this next season, at least the next 10 weeks. Mm-hmm. Uh, for me to actually make some type of habitual change, you know, one shift in one domain to get one outcome, the, the data from this activity can help you make a decision on that, which we'll talk more about next week.

DANIEL: Yeah.

MATT: Yeah, that's good. I've run this, this exercise if you like. I've used it as a grid, you to, um, to run my identified area of. Most stuckness through and it did like so over commitment. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So o over commitment. So, um, so my gold bars would be pretty severely like depleted, like maybe one or two when it came down to, uh, the physical capital and not 'cause of my health.

MATT: 'cause like that's like, like I, I, I take that, that's pretty easy for me 'cause it's become a habit to kind of exercise. But in terms of my time, which again is the other component of that [00:37:00] physical. Capital. Mm-hmm. That's where I'm most scarce. So if I look ahead to, uh, my next, where I wanna be at the end of 12 months, so desire future state, I'm gonna have to take a bunch of gold bars and.

MATT: Lock them up again. So outta my 10, my 10, I'd say probably like three or four need to go onto the fiscal capital. Hmm. Specifically for the subset there of time more. Okay. And when you get more time back to the um,

DANIEL: for burner theory. Mm-hmm. If you're gonna increase your time and capacity, it's gonna have to come from somewhere else, or at least it'll impact your ability to figure, grow other areas.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the limitation. Yeah. So

MATT: I think the only responsible thing I can do there is just turn my family burner all the way down and

DANIEL: just do the podcast full time.

MATT: Yeah. Gold bars. I think Michelle granted a Bitcoin or something, it just seems a bit more timely. You know what I mean?

DANIEL: Okay, Matt.

DANIEL: Well, whether we do gold bars or Bitcoin or, uh, whatever other kind of metaverse currency we we're gonna head into in the future. Mm-hmm. Uh, the point is [00:38:00] that this is a helpful activity. I know we spent a bit of time on this and I know it's a bit more of a visual activity, so again, I'd encourage you to download the handout at spacemaker au slash S3.

DANIEL: But do the activity. I mean, this is, this is where we want to head to because we're taking you somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Uh, and the aim is to start with this reflection on your life as a whole, and then move to how might you actually build a specific habit for a specific domain for the next 10 weeks to actually make a change in your life.

DANIEL: And we are gonna talk about strategies like bundling and trading and subtracting. Next week, uh, and we'll feed back on what we've done as a result. But for now, the activity is to do. The five

MATT: capitals reflection. And in doing so, identifying the domain that you need to address the most. 'cause going back to what we said last episode, if you're truly stuck, then there's a good chance again that even your well last week and think about it for five minutes.

MATT: And the point of this exercise is to get [00:39:00] further clarity on where is it that you're stuck. Yeah.

DANIEL: And the nice thing about a, a framework is you externalize your feeling that's, and you put it against something outside of yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that there's any magic in the gold. Bars, but it just, it gives you something that you can pin your thinking to and then make maybe more objective, thoughtful, or less emotional decisions look

MATT: demand, so it forces clarity Again, clarity again, most of us, myself included, are stuck in a couple of domains, so I need some way to be able to prioritize which of those domains I feel most stuck in.

MATT: And this gets it all outta my head. And onto paper. Great. Which is good.

DANIEL: So if you're a listener and you wanna do this activity, what we would encourage is to create an action trigger. Mm-hmm. Which we've talked about from season one onwards, which is to think about when and where you'll pause and do this activity.

DANIEL: So when will you download the handout, if you wanna do that. Uh, but also when will you sit down and actually get a pen and paper and write down mm-hmm. The current state, the movement, and the future state using this gold bar activity. Yeah. Uh, look, honestly, it only takes about. 20 minutes to half an hour.[00:40:00] 

DANIEL: It's not a complex activity. I don't need incredibly deep thought. Uh, the deep thought happens when you work out, or what's the habit you're gonna take up in order to move the gold bars from where you are to where you wanna be? And we're gonna talk about that next episode, but we highly encourage you to do this activity yourself before them.

DANIEL: So next week we're gonna talk about subtraction, neglect, and the science of why we struggle to eliminate or remove stuff from our life while we just keep adding and adding and adding, which is really important because unless you subtract some stuff from your life, you're not gonna have the space to make the changes you want and get unstuck.

DANIEL: Uh, we're also gonna go back to this five capitals exercise and take you the rest of the way. Not only will you define where you wanna be, but we're gonna give you some practical strategies that we've used with lots of clients to help you actually get there, uh, and, and hopefully get there without adding more to your life by doing things a bit smarter and a and a bit simpler to help us get unstuck, or at least maybe a little less stuck, less sticky, a less sticky, uh, for a surprising second act.

DANIEL: But until next time. [00:41:00] Make space

NARRATOR: the space makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

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