[00:00:00] Hey there, space makers. I'm Daniel Sih, joined by my good friend and co-host Matt Bain. This is the third season of The Space Makers, a podcast to help you live an intentional, meaningful life more than a podcast. This podcast course will help you get unstuck in one area of life, one step at a time. By helping you shift the way you live and work.

A big thanks to our sponsor. Bluston, an Aussie company that's been building hardworking boots for over 150 years. Bluston building the future.

The space makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Space Makers Podcast, season three, where we are exploring how to get unstuck if you feel stuck in a domain of life and want to move forward.

And I'm here with the co-host with the most, the best of the rest, the one and only Matt Payne. The best of the rest. The best of the rest. How doing that? Yeah, no good. [00:01:00] Uh, for a, uh, for a leftover feeling pretty good. Excellent. Uh, you're the best leftover there is. But, um, no, it's so good to have you. We are gonna talk about action and the importance of actually launching into action.

And in particular we're gonna talk about tiny habits and the importance of small, consistent actions to get large benefits, particularly when you feel stuck. Yeah, that's great. Small things over a long time. Lemme start with a story and it's a fable that I heard years ago and I. Love it, uh, because it speaks about the power of small and the power of doing things consistently.

So this is a famous legend or fable about a king, a chessboard, and a grain of rice. So once upon a time, there was a, I feel like a story time. Yeah. That was a great setup. That was a great setup. So once upon a time, there was a. King in India, and he loved to play chess. And, uh, one day there was a traveling craftsman who came to the king with an ornate chessboard with all the, you know, most amazing [00:02:00] materials from across the, I don't know, the near east.

And, uh, and the king wanted the chessboard and said, well, how much is this chessboard? How much will it cost me? And the, uh, craftsman being, you know, a little bit of a swindler, said, oh, I'm majestic king. I don't want gold. I don't want rubies or jewels for this kind of. Ornate, incredible. One of a kind chessboard.

All I want is a little bit of rice. And the king clearly was a bit skeptical and said, well, how much rice? And uh, so the craftsman said, well, what I'd like you to do is get one grain of rice and put it on the first square of the chessboard, and then. Double it. So there's two on the second and then four and then eight, and then 16, 32, et cetera.

Uh, until you get to all 64 squares of the chess board. And that's, that's all I want, that's all I want for the cost of this beautiful chess set. And, uh, and so the king knocked. Being so good at math, thought that sounds like a bit of rice, but it should be reasonable. And he wanted the keeper of the grainery to go get the amount of rice and and to purchase this board.

Well, [00:03:00] when the keeper of the grainery did the maths, it soon became apparent that the king had been swindled because by the time you got to the 21st square, the king owed a million grains of rice. By the time we got to the 41st square, it was over a trillion grains of rice, uh, and by the 64th square it equaled over 274 billion tons of rice.

Uh, for context, that's enough rice to cover the entire landmass of India by 15 meters high. Or if those pieces of rice were kind of put end on end, it would be enough to go past the sun out of our galaxy all the way to alpha cent, Tori and back. Three times. Wow. Inexpensive chessboard. Uh, but, uh, I love that story because it just shows how mind boggling multiplication can be and the power of.

Doubling something small for a consistent period of time. Albert Einstein once said that the most powerful force in the universe is compound interest. Mm. [00:04:00] You know, Albert Einstein, he had very quotable quotes, but, um, it is pretty amazing. You look at a few grains of rice and it doesn't seem like much, but.

If you keep doing the small consistent things and multiplying something again and again and again, well, with time, whether it be money or whether it be communities or whether it be habits, you get this exponential transforming effect. So I think it is true that one of the most powerful forces in the universe is compound interest, and yet we don't apply it enough to our lives.

And so we're gonna talk about it. Uh, we're gonna talk about the power of multiplication, uh, but also we're gonna talk about it with regards to small habit. Change. Um, I reckon you know what it's worth, uh, Warren Buffet would probably agree with you, and that's, you know, it's probably not a bad guy to have in your corner.

It's not, in fact, from what I understand of Warren Buffet, he made the majority of his wealth in the last five, 10 years of his life. And, and the secret to Warren Buffett's wealth from what I've read, is that he started investing earlier than others. So it's a time game, not just a skill game. So again, that's the compounding interest.

So while we're, we're talking of gurus, uh, first warrant, well, I guess you had Einstein Well, and well actually, [00:05:00] to be fair like this, nameless, we started with you first and then Einstein, and then Warren Buffet. Well, technically we started with this Wandering and Craftsman, like who's also slash Swindler.

So started with him, moved on to Einstein, then on to Buffet, and now, uh, James clear he, again, he's popularized so many good ideas and I think it'd be fair to say he popularized this idea of, again, you know, call it, um. The, uh, the effect of compounding or the effect of multiplication versus like mere edition.

Hmm. So he calls 'em atomic habits. Yeah. Tiny habits that add up, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, so all of them, uh, all those habits have that, that, uh, principle running through it of compounding or multiplication, the way that he sums it up beautifully, I think. At least it stuck with me is that to get twice as good as something, you don't have to be like, you don't have to put in like twice the effort, so to speak.

It's more about those small, relatively like long-term incremental changes that build on each other. So it's not just pure addition, but multiplication. So only like a little bit more effort on top of what you've already done. Could lead to at least twice the total effect or outcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's hugely encouraging, I think. Mm. If [00:06:00] you feel stuck. Mm. And if you're in an area of life, whether it be finances or relationship or you know, a career that you are kind of apathetic in or, or in any area of your life, if you feel stuck and you need to find a way to move forward, well then I think it's super encouraging.

You can get huge benefits, not by putting huge efforts, a huge amount of effort in, but by. Making a 1% improvement again and again and again, it, it's not necessarily a doubling like compound interest, but James Clear says if you can put a 1% change and then a 1% change and a 1% change and just keep on ongoing, well then it doesn't take long until, let's say you get more energy.

And when you have more energy, you have more strength. If you have more strength and you have more motivation, at least in the health realm, and then you have. More strength and therefore you have more energy again. Do you know what I mean? So you get this compounding effect by doing a small amount on a regular basis.

Uh, and I think that's encouraging whenever we're stuck. So, Matt, in today's episode, we are gonna talk about a few things. We're gonna talk about the param small habits. We're gonna talk about how to act your way to new forms of thinking, [00:07:00] and we're gonna have a small snippet of an interview. From Asha Berg.

Asha Berg, um, also formerly known as Andrew G. Is that right? Andrew G Yeah, Andrew G Uh, it's a little snippet. I've been given permission to replay from 2:00 AM I the podcast as a great example of how someone felt stuck in their life. They were struggling with obesity, they were struggling with depression, and how a tiny, tiny habit change.

You know, really led to them becoming a healthier person who could then launch a career. Yeah. And of course, if you stick to the end of the episode as usual, we'll give you a very practical application for how to make changes in your own life by compounding small habits.

Okay. So Matt, let's go back to the shift framework and now. We're up to episode seven of season three, so hopefully you'll know the shift framework, which is what we're working through. But, uh, give us a quick recap of a shift and how it helps with getting [00:08:00] unstuck. Okay, here we go. S is for select a domain.

So I've asked people just to pick one area in life where they feel stuck and work on that. Then we've got h for harness your strengths. Okay. So we, we did lots of work about just identifying strengths as opposed to targeting weaknesses. Then we had I, for imagine new pathways. So don't get stuck in one rut of how do I fix or get unstuck.

Broaden that a little bit and then we got F, which is forge ahead with action. So we'll be spending this episode and the next looking at that. So, um, again, we've spent enough time reflecting. Now we're gonna actually get into the action and then after that, the last one, t for travel alongside others. Hmm.

Great. So, um, yeah. Well, what, what did we do last week? Yeah. Activity. Yeah, so we, so that was the eye for the imagine, uh, imagine different pathways. So we asked people to take the, uh, the area, the specific I, I suppose, domain or example of where you feel stuck. And we asked them to spend 15 minutes. So turn the clock on 15 minutes.

To brainstorm 25, 25 different [00:09:00] ways of getting unstuck. And critically, you weren't committing to any of these examples, any of the 25. And also critically that could be is left field zany wild, wacky, choose your objective as possible. It doesn't matter. So you're just like spit balling. Right. Part of the idea of having 25 is a lot, right?

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a bit of imagination. Yeah. And so therefore it forces you to think of new options. Yeah. And that that's part of what leads you to the next bit, which is to. Choose an action, which we're gonna talk about. Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, I think last, last episode, um, again, like 25 sounds like a lot, but I guess the, the theory goes if you just like have 25, then there's bound to be a couple of great ones in there.

So a lot of it just could be, you know, relatively well, it was, you know, fun and interesting, but it's not gonna take but one or two property will. Yeah, absolutely. So we're both struggling with different areas of stuckness in this season. Mm-hmm. Uh, you're, you're struggling with, I suppose, time management, but particularly commitment over commitment, over commitments.

Yeah. Uh, and letting people down. And I've been struggling with some of my inner life, you know, religious spirituality stuff. Mm, mm-hmm. Uh, very different [00:10:00] domains. Yeah. But, um, did you, did you give it a go? Yes, yes, I did. I did. Um, yeah. And look, uh, it felt odd to me 'cause I'm not the guy who kind of just like brainstorms like that, uh, very often, um, at all.

But it helped having the parameters. So I literally like set the timer for 15 minutes and just had like the blank page in front of me and went for it. And I think I got, and we'll talk about it later, I guess. Mm-hmm. But I think I got. At least one or two good keepers. Okay. And one, and one that I'm particularly kind of taken with.

Okay. So one you're gonna go with? I think so. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any wacky ones? Yeah, so I think we talked about last, we, we mentioned the last episode, the possibility of fainting my own debt. Yeah. And starting again, you know, waking up in some southern American country, you know, with a, a new passport.

But, um, yeah, so that was like probably still apex. Um, and then it kind of worked its way down. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. Starting from death. Yeah, starting from phoning your own deck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like you can take some degrees of that. Yeah. Do I pretend I'm sick or something like that? Like, you know what I mean?

If you don't turn up to the next podcast episode, I know it's part of your plan. Uh, no, that sounds good. So look, I did it as well. I found it really helpful. You know, as, [00:11:00] as I've mentioned, I'm, I'm struggling with kind of knowing how to express my, my beliefs, my faith in this new season, uh, kind of the rest of the inner life.

And it was just actually really helpful to write a whole lot of random ideas about what I could do, knowing. A lot of what I am doing doesn't seem to. Feel like it used to. And I actually came up with some great options. One of 'em actually was to get a, a coach, like a spiritual director. I felt like I've needed some coaching and support.

Uh, now it's been a few weeks since you and I caught up. Yeah, since the last podcast. So I've had two sessions already. Uh, she's great. Nigerian pastor in America and she's like a great listener. Uh, and we've been able to talk through some of the tough stuff. I also, um. Had on my list that I should catch up with someone in Melbourne who I really respect, uh, who has kind of given me some good guidance and wisdom in the past.

And I had dinner with her and her husband. She recommended a book, and that book's been super helpful. So again, I've, I feel like I've taken a few steps from that random array of 25 [00:12:00] items. I think you've jumped ahead, but I have jumped ahead. You've jumped ahead. Yeah. It's what I do. But it's, it's been good.

Good. I've appreciated it. But I wouldn't have thought of all those options had I not. I mean, I, it was brewing in the back of my mind. Mm-hmm. To get a coach. I mean, you may have a hunch or an inkling that this is gonna be the option for you, but to some degree there's a lot to be said for saying, well, I'm gonna spend the time trying to like, just see if there's any alternatives.

And you came up with at least 23 that weren't as good. Got some great ones. I was gonna start a cult. I was gonna leave my religion. So, you know, put against all those ones. Yeah. Well then, you know, just getting a coach was simple. Yeah. Good. Glad that was affirmed. Yeah. Yeah.

So Matt, you have lots of experience in the area of helping people change, particularly change their thinking, change their actions, having been a social worker and worked in a whole lot of areas of kind of counseling and group therapy. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, I trained as a social worker in the early two thousands.

Worked [00:13:00] out, I think I did about 15 or 16 years in the field. Uh, and that involved a lot of one-on-one stuff. But, um, it also involved a heap of group effectively, like long term, pretty intensive group therapy. Hmm. And you worked with some pretty kind of challenging, uh, what clients, I suppose you'd say?

Yeah, so I worked in a custodial setting. So I worked with, uh, with inmates back in the day. Uh, also worked with, um, people who were struggling with alcohol and other drug. Issues as well. So like, basically like, um, addictions. Yeah, so what we're talking about kind of vanilla run of the mill, you know, stuckness issues, not full blown addictions chemical or otherwise.

Uh, you know, you, you've really worked with people in a whole lot of different areas, so Yeah. I dunno, I think you've got some stuff to speak to in terms of knowing how to help people reframe their thinking and their behaviors. Yeah, like, I mean, having we say that, I don't wanna downplay the seriousness of people who are deluded into thinking they could start their own cult, but.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but I guess, yeah. Yeah. I've got, I've got history with people, uh, yeah. Working with people who had some pretty significant, um, behaviors as well as attitudes and thinking patterns that [00:14:00] they needed to change, both for their own good, but also the people around them. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

Yeah. So look, we're talking about the importance of forging a away to new action. Mm-hmm. And the cent really the centrality of action. Why action matters. Yeah. If you are stuck. And how to, how to make action happen. Yeah. What are your thoughts from your background? Yeah, so just to kind of frame this up properly and qualified again, uh, I'm a former social worker, so like a fair bit of experience, but I haven't practiced, um, in a while.

When I was coming up, the, the main, if you like, I. Therapeutic approach that I was trained in. Very popular at the time. Uh, rigorous, validated by research, still very popular. So one of the main states when it comes to, um, I guess tools in the toolkit of a counselor or a social worker, or CBT, so cognitive behavioral therapy.

And the idea, as I understand it, the kind of like big idea behind that is that people's behavior can change. So it's malleable in that regard. Yeah. And they would argue that. The behavior, the end behavior is always influenced by both feelings. [00:15:00] So you, your emotional life, what's going on with you, subjectively first person, but also your thinking.

So specific thoughts and thinking patterns. So the kind of like the, the regular pathway, if you like, is thoughts. Lead and influence feelings, which in turn combine with the thoughts, lead and influence behavior or actions. Hmm, that makes sense. Yeah. Now it's really critical to say that that's like in its most kinda simplistic form.

Yeah. Uh, of course it's actually more of a cycle. So, you know how I behave and act in the world and the feedback that I get is gonna, in turn. Influence and mold my thinking. Yeah. I mean, our models are limited, but at least the idea that your thoughts Yeah. Influenced your behaviors Yes. Through And your feelings.

And your feelings. Yeah. Uh, that's, I mean, that, I don't think many people disagree with that. That's how we find most of our lived experience. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. It was effective a lot of the time. Again, it's got so much, uh, so much research behind it to back up its efficacy. Mm-hmm. But I think it'd be fair to say like in more recent times, other models have also come onto, onto the scene that kind of compliment [00:16:00] that.

And I think one that's really useful for our purposes when it talks about, again, not like serious behaviors that they changing, but it's more like everyday life stuff, whether it's being over committ or again. You know your particular issue? I have many, yeah, yeah. Is, uh, is this approach called act and ACT stands for Acceptance Commitment Therapy.

And what I really like about this, and where I think it's really, uh, really relevant for us is that ACT says, look, I. Maybe we as humans have overestimated how much control we actually have and can have over particularly our thoughts and our feelings. So if you go back to that, you know that whole Trinity thoughts, feelings, and behavior proponents of act would say, listen, at the end of the day, the thing that you've got most control over is actually what you do.

What you do, not so much what you think and what you feel, but what you do. And they'd go as far as to say to some degree our thoughts particularly are malleable. You know? So we can influence them, we can work on our thinking. They'd also say, just trying to change your thinking and your feelings can take so much [00:17:00] energy.

Mm-hmm. So much energy and that energy is kind of, I. Um, you've only got so much of it, right? So if you are investing, if you're directing it towards trying to change and manage my thoughts and my feelings, it's taking away from what I got left over from my actual behavior and my actions. Yeah. Okay. Makes sense.

So sense maybe makes sense, but, but you can actually focus on changing your behaviors. Yeah. Yeah. And then, well, we've used the expression therefore. Act your way to new forms of thinking. Yeah. Rather than think your way to new forms of That's right. Acting. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It's not that they're mutually exclusive.

That's right. 'cause your thoughts have to shift Yeah. In order for you to sustain habit change. Yes. But, um, so my understanding from what I've heard is that, but, but act is more, well focus more on changing your behaviors and trust that the, the thinking and the feelings will follow the changes in behavior rather than the other way around.

Yeah, that's right. Like with, with, with a few kind of, I guess like minor kind of, um, tweaks, like along the lines of. Um, don't ignore what you're thinking like, so to speak, and don't ignore what you're feeling, but try to put some distance between you as a person and your thoughts and your feelings. Mm. You know?

So just don't go, like, for example, I'm angry. You go, [00:18:00] I think I'm feeling angry. Uh, don't think Wow. Um, don't just think I'm going to be useless. In this social situation and really nervous instead, oh, look, I'm having the thought that I'm gonna be useless in this social situation. So they're trying to put some distance between, you know, uh, your thoughts and your feelings and who you are.

So you, you kind of take the, I guess like the view of a kind of observer, a detached observer as to what you're thinking and what you're feeling. And you've done the hard work already, and this gets back to the action. You've done the hard work already, much like we've talked about. This pertains a lot to the stuff we did maybe in season one, and maybe we touched on this season two, about identifying your greater Yes.

Hmm. Working out what they say like your values are. So where do you want to go? What are your, you know, um, I guess realistic long-term. I. Intentional thought out values and let that guide your behavior. So if this behavior is gonna be useful to reach, to further reach that value, then engage in it and do the hard work of having that sorted out beforehand.

So you can be [00:19:00] thinking all this kind of stuff. You could be even feeling all this kind of stuff. And again, you're not trying to suppress it. You're not trying to deny it, and maybe you're not even trying to change it. At that particular time, you're just noticing it and letting go, but you're saving all your energy for the actual actions that are gonna be consistent with your values and your greater Yes.

In the

case

of this kind of season where we're trying to help people mm-hmm. Who feel like they, they've now they've reflected on a domain of their life or an area that they wanna change. They've thought about their strengths. You know, they've thought about what works and what they can amplify or reproduce.

They've also, you know, imagined multiple paths, some wacky weird ones, but hopefully some that are sensible and helpful, and hopefully some that are in line with their values. But the next step. Is, well, it's time to do something about it. Right. So how, how does this model, and how does your experience in this place help?

What, what would you recommend? I'd recommend going back to what we've covered a little bit before already. So you've identified your strengths. So like immediately that's gonna set you up for more chance of success and not because. Your strengths are gonna be, the chances are gonna have [00:20:00] less, like if you like negative or unhelpful thoughts and feelings attached to them.

So already you've got some built in confidence there. So start to leverage your strengths like we've already talked about. And then, um, when it comes to pathways, again, you've landed, and we're talking today about landing on a pathway. So you've determined and you're gonna use the criteria. I think this particular pathway is gonna be helpful for me getting unstuck.

By unstuck, we we're saying, well, we've, we've identified, even if it's just like unspoken or implicit, a value attached to getting unstuck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I've done that. So that's the value. So this pathway based utilizing my strengths is gonna be helpful to act on it in order to, um, get unstuck, which is again, gonna reinforce one of my values.

So I've identified it as valuable. So in the moment when it comes to actually, like on the brink of taking action. I guess we're advising regardless of what you are thinking and what you are feeling, again, don't try to suppress that, but just like acknowledge it. But then you need to like ideally have the other thought, trust yourself.

I've already thought about this. I'm relying, I'm gonna utilize a strength. I've already done the [00:21:00] work of identifying this particular pathway. I've made some kind of commitment to follow through with this pathway that involves some action. So I'm gonna put all that stuff just aside. Hello, thoughts, hello feelings.

Regardless of what they are, I wanna go over here and do the thing. And the secret source will be, I think if you actually do the thing, then you are signaling both to yourself and to perhaps an external audience, that you are a person who values this thing, and more importantly, you're competent to actually act in the world in a way that's consistent with that.

Mm-hmm. And once you've done that, you are sending a message to yourself that you are capable of that. So to some degree, the competence to actually take the small step. Breed and foster more confidence. So competence will lead even a little bit of competence. Even just taking a. Action-based step, mm-hmm.

Will lead to you feeling more confident. When you feel more confident that's going to influence the way you think and you feel for next time round. So it is kind of reinforcing a virtuous cycle, what we talked about before, that link between thoughts, feelings, and actions. But again, we're concentrating on [00:22:00] starting on the actions, which will in turn, bolster.

Your thoughts and your feelings. Mm-hmm. In some ways it's like the theory is really helpful. I find it helpful to understand maybe some of what I found helpful in my own life or in, in the lives of others I've coached. But, um, I mean, essentially what we're saying is you may not think that, I don't know, you're a capable person and you may not feel like you're a confident person, but if you know that, I don't know, let's say my situation, I wanna be a public speaker, just as one example and this in line with my values, well, then I should pretend I'm confident.

Start speaking and it might not be great, but do, do the thing, do the action and keep doing it. And eventually the, the thoughts and feelings will follow. Is that what you're saying? That's a great example and I think that's a really good example of the, of the difference, you know, the power. Of going from zero to one as opposed to say one to two.

So if you are the person who said, who thinks, and again, feels like I'm not a very good public speaker mm-hmm. If you just do this and, and you've never done that, [00:23:00] and then you do it just once, so you go from zero to one. Mm-hmm. That's gonna have such a huge impact on how you regard yourself, what you think and feel about yourself.

You know what I mean? Because you've actually done it. You are now. Oh, so you're saying you should go for the big jump? Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, well, again, you have to make it appropriate to your particular situation, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so make it doable and realistic, but even if it's, if it's a small step, if it's the first step you've taken in that direction, so you're going from zero to one, it's huge.

It's huge. Um, and. Again, to that example, suddenly if you get up the front and maybe like you think you did, like a pretty average job, and, but even if you think that and you feel a little bit let down because of that, chances are, and I'm sure this has played out in your experience, you gonna have at least one person who comes up to you afterwards or send you an email or send you the text and says, listen, that was really good, man.

I'm really impressed by what you did. And so suddenly, instead of just, um, relying. On what's going on inside your head. Mm-hmm. And your heart, so to speak. So thoughts and feelings, all that, that's purely internal. I think this, I feel this, you've got someone from the outside, outside of you telling you something about your identity and who you [00:24:00] are.

Mm-hmm. Which is gonna be kind of harder to argue with than again, your own subjective in a dialogue. Yeah. Or one because you won't, you won't get that feedback unless you actually step out and do something. That's right. So, I mean, the simplest thing is if you feel like you're stuck and you've been thinking about it for a long, long time.

Mm-hmm. And you've been thinking about. You know, ruminating or thinking about alternatives or imagining the person you could be, none of that really counts until that actually leads to you doing something right? Yeah. I mean, it's part of the process, but what we're saying is there comes a point in the process where you just have to, or step on stage, or even if it's not step on stage, you know, to write the first talk or to put yourself out there to, you know, practice talking in front of one or two people.

Well, you've gotta do something. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then by doing something, you'll get the feedback. The feedback will help shift your identity, it will increase your confidence, and then you do the next thing. So, I mean, I think that's simple, but I, I just think it's really helpful, the idea that actually I. I don't know.

I love, I love as a productivity guy, the question, what's the next action? And it's almost a mantra in my life, you know, what is the next [00:25:00] action? Whenever I'm stuck, whenever I have a project, whenever I feel like I'm caught up in something, what would be the very next step I should do to help me move forward?

And by taking that next step, I learn something. And by learning something. I get the information and the confidence I need to the next step again, even if it didn't work, what did the first time? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Um, just to pick up quickly on, on, on something that you said there it is, it is simple.

Uh, but like we've said many times, this podcast, it's simple, but it's not easy. Two things that make it a little bit more com not, not complex, but kind of hard to often execute is that, uh, on one level we know that just 'cause we think something and we feel something. It doesn't mean that it's true. Mm. But on a lived, like, on a kinda lived level, so many of us go through our days thinking, well, if I thought it, it must be real.

Yeah. And it's very hard to, to act out of line with your feelings and thinking Exactly. If you feel and think that you don't have self-worth, it's, it's hard to act in a way that is self-loving [00:26:00] and kind on self, you know? I, I get that. Yeah. Yeah. So in that sense, it's an easy idea. Yeah. To act your way out of your.

Thought patterns and out of your feelings, but it's a simple idea as well. Yes, that's right. That's right. And then the second thing that makes it sometimes difficult mm-hmm. Is that we're not talking about acting for acting's sake. And we're not talking about acting just for the sake of getting some momentum, although that's a handy bar product.

We're talking about acting in such a way that has intention behind it, that's had some consideration, some contemplation behind it, and that's gonna be consistent with, again, your strengths and the path that you've picked, which is gonna have to line up and be aligned with your values. Your kind of greater why or your Yes.

Yeah. Which is why we've done the thinking part of this process over the last few episodes before we get to the launch into action. Um. Yeah, it's cool. So, um, yeah, that's helpful. Look, Matt, I, I like the quote from Ryan Halliday who wrote, ego is the enemy, uh, talking depletes us talking and doing fight for the same resources.

That's a very simple way of [00:27:00] saying something similar, that actually there's a point where thinking and talking's important, but there comes a point where you just have to actually push your energy. Your time and your momentum into doing something. And that's where we want people to head. So maybe we'll pause for a moment and we'll have our moment of silence.

Uh, you know, are you someone who gets caught up in the thinking and the ruminating and the reflecting, but doesn't actually do enough? Or maybe I have met people like this. You know, maybe you're someone who just dives into action as your habitual default almost to avoid thinking and to avoid reflecting and feeling.

Uh, in which case, you know, potentially you need to take a step back and reflect on what are your values and who do you wanna be so that your actions align with that and therefore you can get unstuck. So wherever you're at, uh, you know, what does it look like for you to act your way to new forms of thinking?

Have a pause and reflect.[00:28:00] [00:29:00] 

So Matt, look, this is great theory. You can activate a new forms of thinking. Tiny habits multiply and create a compounding effect in your life. But there's nothing like a practical example, and I was listening to an interview by OSHA Gutenberg, formerly known as. Andrew g Radio host, um, he's been a TV presenter.

TV presenter, yeah. Australian Idol guy back in the day. Yeah. Bunch of other stuff. Yeah. But what's interesting is he shared his story about when he was young and he was overweight, he was struggling with depression. He could hardly even get out of bed and do stuff. And, and the tiny, tiny change that led to him actually building confidence and being the type of person who could actually.

I launch a career, and I think it's a great example of acting your way to new forms of thinking through tiny compounding habits. So let's have a listen. [00:30:00] 

So I had been a roadie for a couple of years, and one of the bands moved to Sydney, and then I had no job. So I'm 19 unemployed, sitting around getting outta bed at the crack at 10:00 AM you know, eating wheat, bes, watching aerobics, iSTYLE like a creep.

Uh, this is before the internet, like you, you, you, you made do with what you had Bit of days

in our life stuff as well. Bold and the beautiful.

Oh no, I wasn't in a bowl. A couple of mates were, I could never really deal bold, but, um, I was eight when I was in Weight Watchers. When I was 17, eight. Yeah. When I was 17, I was 112 kilos.

Just terrible eating and compulsive eating, trying to, you know, uh, using eating as a way to, uh, regulate my emotions. Not a good way to do it. And I was just, just getting more and more disgusted with myself in that space of like, oh, I'm such a piece of shit. I should really go and do something. Oh. But every time I go for a walk, I get chub rubbed between my legs and it's, but now I'm not going anywhere.

I'm such [00:31:00] a lazy piece of shit. I'm just gonna eat something. Oh, now I've eaten something. I'm just, it goes on and on. It gets worse and worse and worse and worse. Oh, gotta do something. And so actually tricked myself, um, I was like, oh no, I'll check the mail now. Before the internet, when the mailman came, that was about as exciting as it got in your day.

All right, so I'll check the mail. Now. Here's my front door. My mailbox was that way. So like I pulled my shoes on and I walked that way. I walked left, and there was a block around my neighborhood. It was about 600 meters long, and so I walked, maybe it took me 10 minutes and I grabbed the mail outta the mailbox and I walked back inside.

So my brain goes, yeah, we checked the mail. That was all right. That wasn't. You know, it's not like I went for a 10 minute walk or anything. I just checked the mail. So I did that like two or three days in a row and I felt okay, more and more, okay every time. And then the next time I did it, I started going around the longer block, which is about a mile, about a k and a half.

And I just did that every day for, I don't know, probably a month. And then one day I was just. I set off, I no longer had to trick myself 'cause I started to [00:32:00] feel a lot better. The, that's when the, um, oxytocin had started to get involved, you know, and the reward centers were starting to kick in and I started to dos Yeah.

Crave this, you know, feeling in a healthy way. You know, I was like, I, I miss that thing. I want to get that thing that makes me feel good. I'll go for a walk in the sun. This is nice. I listen to shitty radio or whatever. And one day I was walking and I was like, I just. I just had to run like a dog when it's getting close to the dog park and it knows.

Here we go. Here we go. Course comes sort of style, starts to pull in your, pull your back of your car off and you're like, chill, bro. We're almost there. We're almost there. And then you open the dog and it's like, phew. Open the door and the dog's just out. Right? Um, so it was like, that was like. Ah, and I'm just, I'm like scraping like hair's back.

Ah, I had really long hair at the time. I was like, ah. And I was running and I ran until my lungs were bursting and I was sweating and everything hurt. And I turned around and I'd run the distance of two telephone poles. I'm like a, I don't know, maybe a hundred. And I was easy over a [00:33:00] buck, right? Easy. Maybe a buckfire, right?

And I was like, whoa. I was, everything hurt. My intercostal muscles are cramping. So I walked the rest of the way. The next day I ran another telephone pole, so I ran three, and the day after that, I ran four. And because when you're 19, you're essentially on what? The guys who go to my gym, and they're older than me and they look like I've left the house with a coat hanger still in their shirt.

All right. Your testosterone levels might be a little different than mine, pal. Uh, but when you're 19, that's the kind of testosterone that you've got. So you start putting in that kind of activity. On a 19-year-old, I changed shape, like within two months I'd lost like 15, 20 ki like crazy how much weight I lost.

Isn't it fascinating? Such a great lesson. Yeah. Great story.

Yeah. I. It's such a simple story, but I love it. Hey, firstly, thanks to, um, to mi and the podcast, uh, Jack Rew, Walt and Shane Curry. If, uh, I've been on it myself, but if you're interested in checking out the whole episode, you know, [00:34:00] go look it up. I think it's a two part series.

Can I link to it in the show notes? I should link to it in the show notes. That sounds good. But yeah. What, what did you learn from that? His wacky story about running between telegraph polls. Uh, yeah, it was a really good reminder of how that first step requires very little motivation in the best sense.

Mm-hmm. So, um, it wasn't a grandiose goal by any stretch. It was easily accessible in terms of like, uh, he had. He had a reason to do it, which is as in he had a small catalyst to, to, to even, uh, consider it. Just getting the mail. Mm-hmm. The environment, the track, it was all there for him, literally outside his front door.

So the barrier to entry, taking the first step in on every level, both motivation and environment. Super small. Yeah, that's right. And what, I love it. It doesn't sound like you ever thought it either. No, it's true. He didn't, he didn't do his way power exercises and he didn't write down the 25 options. Like he literally said, I might walk a different way to the letter box today.

He still had some I he had some, he had a value. He had a goal. He had a value. Yeah. He knew he was un he was [00:35:00] there. He knew he didn't wanna sustain the pain that he had. Mm-hmm. So he wanted to try something different. Yeah. But um, but I do like the idea that sometimes we can overcomplicate it. And actually just do something different.

Mm-hmm. Like just walk a different way. Yeah. And then if it works, do it again and go further. Mm-hmm. And eventually he, he experienced the motivation, didn't he? Like the energy and the actual desire, like just to actually run. Yeah. Wasn't like, I'm gonna run today, but it's like he felt like running. Yeah.

That was interesting. You know, and, and I think that's softened the case with when you do an, when you do an action regularly enough. I don't know. Your identity or your motivation just happens to change along the way. Your thinking just happens to change. Right. Maybe you could call it a, um, an advantage of having low, if not zip expectations.

Well, it's true, right? Because it, it's okay, I'm gonna run. When I'm ready to run and, and, and by the sound, who knows? 'cause that was just a small snippet of, of an interview. Yeah. But it doesn't sound like he, okay. The plan was, listen, in three weeks time, I'm gonna bust outta this walking business and I'm gonna run between.

It was more [00:36:00] spontaneous in the moment, but he was ready for it. Yeah. But it happened because he was acting. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing, right? So when you do actions on a regular basis, stuff happens. Yes. And that's the power of forging ahead with actions. Mm-hmm. Maybe like to put, to try to put like a neat little bow on it.

It's an example of an action-based process as opposed to a goal. Based process. Yeah, that makes sense in that regard. So I think if anyone's stuck in life, obviously this is an example of health, uh, it's a great example of health, but I think, you know, it works with anything. You know, if I'm struggling with finances, just like put five bucks aside once a week, you're not gonna get outta debt with five bucks a week, but.

Maybe the habit of 45 bucks out a week would teach you something and open up an opportunity you couldn't have thought of. You know, if you're struggling in a relationship, uh, well, let's say, you know, you, you've got a, a broken relationship. Just the thought maybe of pulling out a photograph and looking at it, uh, I think this is in his interview as well.

If you listen to the, for one, look at the photograph of the person you're estranged with and just think about calling them. Don't call 'em, but just. [00:37:00] Take that first step. You know, the point is just what small, tiny thing can you start with that will head you in the direction that you want to head in?

Don't just think about it anymore. I like that. Um, I like it 'cause it's, it's so kind of counterintuitive, uh, to people like me who've been raised on the idea of big hairy or, um, audacious goals. And also the idea that it's gotta be like, you know, to kind of commit fully and make sure that actually follow through.

That I need to plaster this goal all over social media and kind of like put my public re reputation on the line. Mm. In his example, I reckon he would've been understandably embarrassed to share like his first step. With anyone beforehand. Mm. Because it seems so trivial. Yeah. And so small. Yeah. But again, it's action and it's repeatable, consistent action.

Yeah. And that's the way to get unstuck.

So Matt, let's get practical. [00:38:00] We've done lots of theory. Even up to this point in the podcast, but now it's time for people to launch into action. I like the, you know, the, the famous quote, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. And the second best time is now you might be looking back and thinking, gosh, if only I did that 20 years ago.

But it doesn't matter because you can't change it. Um, but what you can do is plant that seed now. So what's the action we're gonna recommend listeners do this week? We would like everyone. To pick one, and this is really important, tiny, so almost insignificant, um, habit that is gonna help them. In the domain they've chosen, they wanna get unstuck in.

So something that's gonna very, very, uh, gently move the needle. And so we're talking a tiny habit again. So the barriers to entry has gotta be completely like minuscule. So it, it's a habit that needs to be repeatable, so something that, that they can do consistently over time. And look, ideally that would, you know, logically at least align [00:39:00] with a value or, you know, an area they want to move to.

So, you know, obviously walking is gonna help you get fit. Saving is gonna help you save money. Yeah. Uh, a tiny habit that if you do regularly, it actually leads somewhere. Or we could lead somewhere bigger. Yeah. And thoroughly, Dan, like we want it to be something that aligns with the area or domain that they've picked, they wanna become unstuck in.

And, you know, the bonus points, what it be great is if it ties in nicely with. One of the 25 things that you identified, preferably like the most realistic, viable option outta that 25. If you can take that, that path that you've selected and turn that into a tiny habit, great. That'd be perfect. Yeah, absolutely.

So look, that's it. I mean, it, it's uh, simple challenge, but it's a hard challenge. So I want you to take a few minutes out to work out what is one tiny. Change you can do on a regular basis that will potentially shift your life. Yeah, and if people need more guidance, you know, we recommend they go to space Makers au slash S3 for season three.

We have a habit [00:40:00] tracker that you can kind of tick off your progress week by week or day by day. It's downloadable, it's printable as part of our broad kind of podcast guide. And there's an infographic that summarizes all these activities in a really neat kind of. Easy way. It's a cool infographic. It's a cool infographic as far as infographics go as as far as info.

It's pretty cool, man. So Matt, next week we are up to episode eight of 10 of our podcast. So we're getting into the kind of the pointy end. So look, our promise, you know, for listeners who actually. Listen to the episodes and actually do the activities as well. You'll get a bit less stuck in your life.

You'll get unstuck by shifting one small thing in your life, one small step at a time. So this is, this is where we're at, right? So, um, next week, what are we gonna talk about? We are gonna be talking about perhaps one of the most powerful levers that you can pull on or lean on. Consistently as a habit to make sure that you've got the time in your busy lives to do the things that you want to do to actually like, you know, make the [00:41:00] changes that you wanna make.

And that is called time blocking. We'll be looking at the, uh, the awesome productivity and life habit of time blocking in detail. So that sounds great, Matt. I'm looking forward to. But, um, until next time, make space see you,

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