DANIEL: [00:00:00] Hey there, space makers. I'm Daniel Sih, joined by my good friend and co-host Matt Bain. This is the third season of The Space Makers, a podcast to help you live an intentional, meaningful life more than a podcast. This podcast course will help you get unstuck in one area of life. One step at a time by helping you shift the way you live and work.

DANIEL: A special thank you to our amazing sponsors, Boch Nutrients, banjos Bakery, cafes, and Bluston from our beautiful home state of Tasmania, the island of creativity, and of course space. Making

NARRATOR: the space makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

DANIEL: Welcome back everyone to the Space Makers Podcast. We are so excited to be back here for season three, another podcast to help you make space for an intentional, meaningful life.

DANIEL: I'm here with my co-host, the one and only Matt Bain. Hey, Dan, great to be back. It's good to be back after a number of months, and we are gonna [00:01:00] talk about how to make space to get unstuck for a surprising second act. If you haven't been part of the Space Makers Podcast before, my name's Daniel Sih. I'm an author.

DANIEL: I've written a number of books, spacemaker and Raising Tech Healthy Humans, all about helping you make space and slow down and also help your kids make space if these use too much tech. I have done a TEDx Talk, I'm a productivity consultant and generally like to help people think about how to make space.

DANIEL: I'm here with Matt who works for Space Makers. Trainer and coach and one of the smartest people I know, which is why I'm thankful for you being on the podcast. Thanks, Dan. Very

MATT: kind of just, so,

DANIEL: just

MATT: the record, I still haven't written a book, but

DANIEL: yeah, thanks. Oh, that's right. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. You will.

DANIEL: We will. One day. We will. One day. And so Matt, we call this a podcast course more than a podcast. That's a name we made up ourselves. Yeah, but it's catching on. I hope that, hopefully it catch on, it on catching on, but, but we really wanted to differentiate what we're doing because. We spent a lot of time really thinking carefully [00:02:00] about how to take, you know, one idea over 10 episodes to help people move from a to, I dunno, Z, or maybe A to B, I dunno how far they move.

DANIEL: But the point of our podcast is, is that each season is very, very different and distinct. So the first season was about how to retrain your mind. Mm-hmm. We talked about technology Yes. And the impact of tech and why our attention's fractured, but particularly how to refocus if you're feeling fractured.

MATT: Yeah. And season two was all about making space for life's inevitable resets. And particularly that was in relation to midlife. So not just midlife, but particularly midlife and the eighteens to like thirties as well. Yeah.

DANIEL: The midlife squeeze and, and how to reset your habits if you need to shift them based on the research.

DANIEL: Yep. That was it. So you and I have been talking about what comes next. Yeah. And how did we land on moving from reset to unstuck?

MATT: Yeah. That was via a lot of the feedback that we got from our excellent listeners. I was really optimistic about the last season. I was [00:03:00] really, really looking forward to it.

MATT: Right. Yeah. But even I was surprised by how many people as it landed. Told me, reached out and told me that it resonated. Yeah. Particularly like the angle about midlife, particularly people who, again, who are roughly like our age. Right. So in the kind of like mid forties and beyond.

DANIEL: Yeah. The midlife squeeze just it resonated, didn't it?

DANIEL: Yeah. I went to a party just the other day and I talked to just two or three people who had listened to the podcast and there was one lady who said she's wanted to exercise for years and just hasn't done it. And one of our episodes where we talked about never miss a workout, just got her moving and now she swims three times a week.

DANIEL: Another, another person at that party said that her and her partner or husband listened to the podcast and talked about how to help their family life. So like that's just

MATT: super encouraging. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Like we've heard, and this is legit, we've heard people actually say they made significant changes in their career.

DANIEL: Mm.

MATT: And we've heard people say that they've, like, they, they've implemented new patterns and rhythms of just seeing particularly like old friends. Mm-hmm. Hey, there was like, one person

DANIEL: wrote to us and said, said, this is what we've done. This is what he's done in every [00:04:00] single episode and how it's changed his life.

DANIEL: That was awesome. So whoever that was, thank you for that. Yeah. That was really impressive. But we did have a few people, right. And just suggest that the reset idea didn't resonate with 'em a hundred percent.

MATT: Yeah. Or or least. Perhaps they, they saw it, they valued it, but it was most, it was mostly as an aspiration.

MATT: They didn't know how to actually realize. For now,

DANIEL: one guy I think said, you know, he, he realizes the value of old friends. Mm. And the importance of resetting. But he actually feels really sad 'cause he doesn't have any old friends. Yes. 'cause he never did the stuff in the first place. Mm-hmm. So, so you and I reflected on emails like that and we thought actually it's not so much that this person needs a reset.

DANIEL: But they're actually stuck and they need to get unstuck. Yeah. Which is what this season's gonna be about. Yes. Yeah. Reset looking back, unstuck being about moving

MATT: forward. Yeah. And just be clear, like we're not talking about stuck as in their, their entire, someone's entire life is a mess, but in one really valuable domain of their life, they feel stuck as if they dunno how to progress with that.

DANIEL: Absolutely. And, [00:05:00] but that, that can make you feel like you're stuck in all of life. All of life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we want to help you reframe some of that and actually find practical habits and steps to move forward. Yep. That's good. So you and I have talked about the analogy that life is a bit like a game.

DANIEL: So imagine it's halftime in the game of life. You know, the whistle blows your head off the field. You know, the oranges come out and you're sitting on the sidelines and maybe you're feeling a bit dejected because the game's not heading the way you want it to head. You know, maybe you know, you've had a small injury.

DANIEL: I dunno. Maybe you've had some bad luck against you. I maybe you kicked an own goal. I dunno. But whatever it is, you know, you're down points. You're feeling like things aren't heading the way you expected, and I suppose you're feeling a bit stuck. So what do you do? You know, if the orange is there and you're reflecting and you dunno what to do next, how do you actually get unstuck and get back on the field to play?

DANIEL: You know, a surprising second half, you know, it could be stuck in lots of ways. You know, you and I have [00:06:00] talked about might be a career. Mm-hmm. You might feel stuck in a relationship that's gone sour or, or that feels broken. You might feel stuck in terms of finances. Sure. You know, and, and just experiencing the pinch of finances and maybe debt.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. Or you might feel stuck in terms of. Purpose and just feeling a general lack of purpose in life or you know, maybe feeling stuck in terms of your health, just how that's progressing and maybe your inability to execute or to implement the stuff that you know you wanna do, but you just can't get there.

DANIEL: I don't know. You could be

MATT: stuck in anywhere. Yeah. But I guess, like you were saying before, if I feel stuck in one way, there's a good chance it's gonna permeate. And make me feel like I'm stuck in general. Yeah. Yeah.

DANIEL: So what do you do? How do you get back on the field? Mm-hmm. How do you have a surprising second act?

DANIEL: And we've said that because it may not end up the way you expect, and actually the second half may be a very different second half than you thought it would be, but we actually think that the tools and principles we're gonna talk about this season mm-hmm. Will actually help you get back on the field and actually make a tremendous change in your life as supposed to change things when change is hard.

MATT: And [00:07:00] just to be clear, we're not talking about. Being stuck just in midlife. Right. Are you feeling about the, we we're talking about the sensation of being stuck in any period of

DANIEL: life. Yeah. You can get stuck in your thirties, forties, fifties, like in a domain or in multiple areas of your life. Mm-hmm. You know, we're still gonna refer to some of the midlife stuff, just probably 'cause that's where you and I are at.

DANIEL: Yeah. And I think there's something about the midlife squeeze, which. Leads to, yeah. Stuckness. It's very stuck. Conducive, yeah. That's the term. Yeah. Stuck, conducive. Uh, but no, the principles we're gonna teach, we've used for coaching and training with lots of different people, and they work to help you move forward.

DANIEL: Particularly if like you look forward and life's a fog and you actually don't know what to do next, well then how do you actually move forward? And that's what we're gonna talk about in terms of the principles. So if you stay to the end of the podcast, we are going to, mm-hmm. Unravel our shift framework, which we've spent a lot of time thinking about.

DANIEL: It's, uh, an acrostic, S-H-I-F-T, so I can spell to help you shift the way you work. Yeah. That f is important and we'll talk about how these shift [00:08:00] principles will help you get unstuck over this 10 episode podcast.

DANIEL: So I was having a walk, just having a conversation with my friend Wilber the other day, and we were talking about the podcast and he listens to it. He asked some questions. We had an interesting conversation, but I. He's in midlife, you know, just like I am and experiences that kind of midlife squeeze that we talked about in last season.

DANIEL: And he said this really profound or interesting comment. He said, I just like a chiasm, or your season reminds me of a chiasm. And I'm like, I don't know what a chiasm is. And he explained it. You know, it's like a structure with a beginning and middle and a. Beginning rather than an end. And, and then he said something quite profound.

DANIEL: He said, ah, once you see the pattern, you see it everywhere. And you know, you have these kind of moments, you know, I call 'em chorus moments that stick in your head. And [00:09:00] that was one where I was like, ah, that, that there seems to be something in there. So I went and looked it up and you and I had a chat and I realized, you know, a lot about, well, a lot more about chiasm or chima than I do.

DANIEL: And I think he's right. I think once you see the pattern, you, you see it everywhere. And I think it's. A super helpful concept to frame where we're heading in season

MATT: three. So, my understanding, right, and again, just to preface this, I'm not a big time Kai expert, but I, I, I want the

DANIEL: T-shirt. Hi, Matt. I'm a Kai.

MATT: I'm from Space Makers and I'm a Kaiser. Yep. So, yeah, so my understanding is that it is a literary device in its most common form. It's u it's used in poetry, like, like Hebrew poetry, and it's called a chiasm because chiasm is the Greek. Letter or name for the symbol that we see as the XX. Okay. So that's where Elon Musk got that from.

MATT: Maybe. Maybe. I can't really, I don't feel like that's probably above my pay grade. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But perhaps, yeah. So the X, so as a form of literary device, it's a pattern, right? And it can be via words or it can be in terms of [00:10:00] themes. Okay. And the patterns, usually something like this. Okay. A, B, C, D, C, B.

MATT: A. A, B, C, D, C, B, A. So what that means, right, is that that D in that sequence is the equivalent of the middle of an X. Okay? So the middle of the X, like the equivalent of that D as a literary device, say in poetry, I. Indicates what the big theme or the big idea or the, the interpretive meaning is for what's preceded it, the A, B, C, and what comes after it.

DANIEL: And so what I like the description, I think Wilbur said it's like instead of a, a beginning, a middle, and an end, which tends to be the storylines that we have in our movies and our books. It's the idea that there's a beginning, a middle, and then a, a beginning or a new beginning. Yeah. That is informed by this often challenging or surprising or difficult.

DANIEL: Kind of chim. Yeah. X Yeah. So how, how does that relate to what we're talking

MATT: about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for our purposes, I think we could say that the middle of that X [00:11:00] or you know, the equivalent of the D is the, is the point of feeling stuck and, and it's often easy to think, okay, well when I'm stuck, this is like the end of something.

MATT: And it's easy to feel like I can't see what comes next. If you're really stuck, you can't see, like you said, it's a bit of a fog. Yeah. If you're really stuck, if it's not like

DANIEL: you feel stuck, but you know what your plan is, you actually. Don't even know what to do next.

MATT: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right.

MATT: That's right. Like, yeah. So you really are flailing, right, when you're genuinely stuck. Hmm. And so this. Idea of the chiasm is actually hopefully a call for hope. 'cause it means that it's actually that being stuck, that feeling of being stuck serves as a catalyst.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm.

MATT: For what your new beginning is going to be.

MATT: It's like it provides some energy, it's the cause, it's the engine for a new

DANIEL: beginning. It's almost like we get stuck and that might be the X in your life or the pivot point of your life and you. Push against it, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, this is not what I want. This is painful, or it's hurting, or I feel disappointed.

DANIEL: Or a broken [00:12:00] relationship. You know, like it's, it, it's the, the Kaizen point sucks. Yeah. But actually it's the very thing that you need to actually have a surprising second act. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's really encouraging. If you can. I suppose have a sense of purpose or meaning or, or, or understand that there's value in being stuck.

DANIEL: It's not just something you wanna get out of, it's, it's something you wanna learn from, grow in, and be projected through. It's

MATT: like realizing this is gonna take you somewhere that you didn't know that you were meant to go. Mm-hmm. But. Hopefully it's gonna take you somewhere. As trite as this sounds somewhere that's better than where you think you were going.

MATT: So it's not a case of, well, I'm stuck, so I wanna take this old roadmap that I had and just consult it further so, so I can get back onto my original destination. Mm-hmm. It's like, no, no, no. Like, you're gonna have to throw that map away. Chances are, the point of being stuck is that you are gonna be given in time and with through some hard work, a new map with a new destination.

DANIEL: Yeah. And, but you only get that. If you, [00:13:00] you somehow change when you're stuck. Yeah. You know, we had an interview with Julia. Mm-hmm. Dr. Julia au in kind of the midseason bonus interviews. Yeah. And she talked about suffering. Mm-hmm. And her experience of suffering. And I loved her line. And it was a line that she had in one of her poems that you don't wanna waste your suffering.

DANIEL: Yeah. And that's really stuck with me as well, that idea that actually maybe the chiasm, maybe that kind of, that X point in your life. Is a point where you can either choose to, you know, not learn from your suffering, maybe become bitter, maybe become smaller or more angry. Or, or, or you can actually not waste your suffering.

DANIEL: Hmm. And let it change you. And let it change your perspectives. Allow it to give you new dreams. Yeah. And actually propel you not to an end on the other side of the kaizen, but a new beginning. Something that actually is fresh and different. Yes. You know, I often think about my life and I've had a few kaizen points I would say.

DANIEL: I could, I mean, I could never imagine the life that I have now. Mm. And if I had the life that I wanted, and if I [00:14:00] had everything that I thought I wanted come true in my twenties mm-hmm. I'd have a shitty life. Yeah. Yeah. Or it wouldn't be the thing that I would want. Yes. Now, do you know what I mean? Yeah.

DANIEL: And the only way that I've been able to experience a fresh, surprising next season is by just spending long enough. In that Chism and letting it

MATT: change me. Yeah. I really like that. And without trying to kind of press the analogy too far and too hard, I'd still say that even if it hasn't gone, your life hasn't gone exactly the way that you planned it in your twenties.

MATT: Mm-hmm. And then again, like that, that's a good thing. And it hasn't gone that way. 'cause the chiasm, you still, if you like your new beginnings. Mm. You, although it's different from what you envisioned. Mm. It's still very much you. You know what I mean's? Still Dan. So what we're talking, well,

DANIEL: I didn't know who I was.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in fact, every new chim, or every new shitty experience where I feel stuck actually gives me new insights Yes. Into who I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have to kind of shed the stuff that [00:15:00] Yeah. You hold so dear. Yeah. Yes. In order to actually become who you are for that next season.

MATT: Yeah. And, and this is important, right? 'cause we're not suggesting that again, you, you go through like the middle of the X, you go through the period of stuckness. Sure. And you're meant to emerge as a completely, radically different, you know, like innately different. Person. Yes. We're not suggesting that I had bad jokes before the chasm.

MATT: I had bad jokes after,

DANIEL: and now I have bad jokes after the next one as well, because

MATT: it's still A, B, C, D, and then c, b, a. It's, there's still, there's still some, some more of you that continues just like in a new form.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. So I suppose the point of this conversation from what I see, is if you, you feel like there's a domain in your life that isn't working or, or if you feel like your whole life is stuck.

DANIEL: There's purpose in it. Yeah. And actually in some ways, the, the deeper the hole, the, the, the more gold you'll find if, if, if you allow it to shift you and change you, and if you do the things that can actually help you move forward. Yeah. [00:16:00] I, I, I don't wanna belittle, we don't wanna belittle. How hard it is to be stuck as well.

DANIEL: And it's easy for us to say I'm stuck, you know, in some ways. But, you know, there are things that are really terrible that happen to people that haven't happened to me. Yeah. I don't want to underplay how hard it is. And we don't wanna simplify this, do we?

MATT: No, no, no, no, no, no. I, so the last thing that we want is for this to come across as a kind of a Stuck For Dummies guide.

MATT: Yeah. Okay. Or, or like some kind of like a, I dunno, like a advice kind of column, like a trite advice column, old school advice column. Mm-hmm. Yeah, certainly don't wanna move that at least in that direction.

DANIEL: Yeah. And the thing about the A BCD and then the CBA is actually CB and A isn't like, it's not like I had a hard, a great life, had a BA bad situation, and now have a great life again.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. Actually, the CBA on the other side might still be challenging and still be difficult. Yeah, yeah. But there's meaning and purpose and richness and, and texture in it that is right for the right. The next season, which is why we wanna say this season is about getting, [00:17:00] making space to get unstuck for a surprising second act.

DANIEL: Yeah. Rather than for the best second act ever. Oh yeah. Yeah. Because surprising is good, but again, it may not be exactly what you hope for

MATT: and it's probably not gonna be easy. Surprising doesn't mean easy.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. But it does mean good. Yeah. And that's what we'd love for everyone from this season, for them to actually have a surprising second act through the principles and ideas that we share.

DANIEL: So Mac? Mm-hmm. What do we mean by stuck? Mm-hmm. I mean, it's a simple term. We chose it 'cause it's memorable. Yep. But it's probably not a psychologically sound term. What do we mean by being stuck and no, no one's ever stuck being psychologically sound. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's why it's a podcast. You can say whatever you want.

DANIEL: And just pretend you're smart. But yeah. What, what do we mean by stucking? What do we mean by unstuck? Yeah.

MATT: Yeah. Cool. So our working definition of stuck, I think involves [00:18:00] like at least two elements. Like number one, you may have had some goals in particular domains for particular domains of your life, and you just haven't reached them.

MATT: Okay. And so, and you haven't reached them, and there's a sense of disappointment and frustration that comes with that. Mm. So you're stuck as in, you know, you had destination a. In mind and you thought that you'd be there by now and you haven't hit it. Yep. Yeah. And if we're talking like generally stuck, then chances are that's come through circumstances beyond your control.

MATT: You know what I mean? So, so things life has happened to you. Mm-hmm. That's made it just impossible to kind of get there. Right. So that's, so that's the first kind of example. The second type I. Stuff that we're talking about is, and this is the throwback to last season, this is relates back to like to the Roadrunner idea.

MATT: So maybe you had destination a in mind and maybe like you've reached destination A, but once you get there, you think, man, actually the satisfaction or the feeling of contentment I was hoping to derive from this is actually not present. And so now I feel like I've actually gotten where I've wanted to go.

MATT: But it's not all that, and I feel like stuck as in like what's next? Mm. Yeah. That, so that's the second kind of stuck, probably [00:19:00] like rare in terms of where we are coming from. The third thing I reckon it's worth talking about with that definition is like I, I guess like the feeling, yeah, the feeling that, so like the feeling of being stuck.

MATT: So, you know, I was thinking about it, if you say like got a diagnosis of being pre-diabetic or having type two diabetes, like right away, right, right away, there'd be a bunch of resources that were thrust upon you that would allow you to navigate. Hmm. A way through it will outline really concrete next steps here.

MATT: What, here's what you do. Change on the diet. Take the medication, exercise more. Yeah. Whether

DANIEL: or not you've got the motivation or ability. Yeah. Yeah. That is another thing, but at least as a map.

MATT: Yeah. So assuming that you've got the motivation for it, okay. That's like, that is a not fun diagnosis to have, like whatsoever.

MATT: But at the same time you've gotta, you've got a roadmap forward and some internal driver motivation to get there. Yep. So I'd say it's difficult, but that's not the same thing as being stuck.

DANIEL: Okay.

MATT: Stuck is when, again, I don't know what to do next. I haven't even got my. Hands my arms around the problem. Yet it is still kind of fuzzy and vague in terms of what am I actually dealing with?

MATT: Why do I feel stuck? What does it look like? And I don't even know like what the next step is. So I don't have the end [00:20:00] destination in mind. I dunno what, like where the new map is going, so to speak. And I don't even what the, and I don't even know what the next couple of steps to take to get there is either.

DANIEL: And I've got and, and we do wanna say, you know, this is not a medical, yeah, we're not medical experts. I'm sure there's more official terminology that we should probably say. Mm-hmm. But, you know, if. If you are struggling with, you know, deep mental health issues with, with traumatic backgrounds and things that require professional mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

DANIEL: Psychology or medical advice or medicine. The podcast isn't meant to replace it. Yeah, yeah. That, but we are hoping to provide some helpful principles that have been based on our coaching experience and reading and the research to help you make some wise, smart choices.

MATT: Yeah, that's right. For the more kind of, almost like garden variety, everyday life domains that people normally feel stuck in.

MATT: Yeah. So to kind of bring this like to a bit of a close, there was lots of feedback we got last season about people getting sick of Richard Raw and Cal Newport quotes, so, yeah. Yeah. So we went deeper this time. Yeah. So, yeah, so we, so we went deeper. I know this is from one of your favorite poet stance, so Yeah.

MATT: Yeah, I picked that out. Especially from the Aussie band powder finger. Yeah. Probably pinned by [00:21:00] Boon Fanning. If you wanna get into specific details, this quote kind of sums up what we're talking about. Pretty well, I think, and it goes, this life, well, it's slipping right through my hands these days. Turned out nothing like I had planned.

DANIEL: Mm. Deep. But it is deep actually. Like these, these days turn out. Nothing like I planned. I, I think that's a great description. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Stuck whether in you're in midlife or any other season of life. Mm-hmm. And yet when I, I mean, I dunno if that's the intention of the song, but uh, when I, when I hear that kind of song or when I think of that expression, I'm like, thank goodness.

DANIEL: Yeah. These days didn't turn out as I had planned because there's a better plan and a better. Un stuckness. Better beginning. Yeah. On the other side of the Kais. Yeah, I like that. It's good. Hmm. So why don't we have 30 seconds to pause and reflect and think, uh, are you stuck? You know, are there areas of your life or even just one domain where you feel like it's a bit cloudy, where you [00:22:00] resonate with some of the ideas that we've talked about, and what might it look like for you to find meaning in the kaizen, to have a beginning, a middle, and then a fantastic new surprising beginning.[00:23:00] 

DANIEL: Hopefully that was helpful to pause and reflect. We always have 30 seconds of silence because this podcast is not about what you learn, but it's about what you do, and we want you to reflect and do something with the information from this season. But having gone from the great Richard Raw to the even greater powder finger, it's all up here.

DANIEL: From here, we wanna introduce mm-hmm the framework that we're gonna walk you through over 10 episodes. To help you get unstuck, and we've used an acrostic called Shift to help you shift the way you live and work, which is our tagline, but S-H-I-F-T. See, I'm good at spelling that. Let me go through it. So the, the first [00:24:00] part of the shift framework is to select one.

DANIEL: Domain. Okay, so there are multiple domains in your life. We're gonna talk about the for burner theory next episode. Yeah. And help you reflect on the idea that you need to pick a domain to shift if you want to get unstuck. Even if you feel stuck in multiple domains, you can't change everything at once.

DANIEL: But if you find a. The right domain to shift and to shift. And if you can shift one small habit and do it habitually, well then you can get kind of exponential gains or, or capital growth, so to speak, on those habits. Yeah, that's good. So one at a time. It's good. Yeah. So second one is to harness your strengths, and we're gonna talk about the importance of focusing on what works rather than what doesn't.

DANIEL: We're gonna talk about the science of strengths. You know, I'm a Clifton strengths coach. We've got Clifton strengths coaches in our team, and and talk about why it's important to not just fixate on what's broken and try to fix your weaknesses, but to actually work out what are the bright spots and how can I amplify those things.

DANIEL: Yeah, I think it's a [00:25:00] great way to move forward from. Being stuck.

MATT: I, if I put you right, we're talking about almost like deploying our strengths to help almost indirectly address our weaknesses. Yeah. Or our weaknesses. Yeah, yeah,

DANIEL: absolutely. Because it's so easy to fixate on what's broken and what's wrong.

DANIEL: Mm-hmm. Especially in that kind of chim. Yeah. But actually let's start by focusing on what's right. Yep, that's good. Alright. From there we are gonna look at the I, which is to imagine multiple paths, and I love this stuff. This is about Hope Theory from Schneider, and we're gonna talk about the idea of way power, which is forming multiple paths to come up with creative and novel solutions so that you can try new things if you feel stuck and learn and experiment as you move forward.

DANIEL: So that's gonna be a good kind of one or two episodes. The next one's the F to forge ahead with action.

MATT: Yes. Yeah, that's it. And so that, if I've understood correctly, is all about acting our way into new ways of thinking. Hmm. As opposed to just trying to think, think, think, rationalize, conceptualize, think my way into new ways of acting.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. So thinking, planning, all that stuff's super important, but at [00:26:00] some point you have to start doing stuff. Yeah. And particularly if you're in the fog, actually you need to do stuff and learn. Because if you just keep thinking about it, you won't usually get very far.

MATT: Yeah, that's good. And action for it's worth is usually potent, as in it brings with it a sense of agency.

MATT: Yeah, I think. Yeah. And motivation. Yeah.

DANIEL: As well. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about how to do that. Mm-hmm. And some strategies around how to forge new actions. And the final one is about traveling alongside others, and why does that matter?

MATT: Yeah. Because if you find a community of like-minded people around you who want to head in the same direction, then you are harnessing that collective motivation.

MATT: Mm-hmm. That inspiration like and then encouragement, you know, so much easier than trying to kind of shift solo.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. And look, I just don't think you can shift solo, you know, even if it's just one or two people, ideally a community, but just change is a communal game. And so how might you be authentic and real?

DANIEL: And actually talk about your stuckness with others in order to move forward. Yep. [00:27:00] So that's the shift framework. We're gonna unpack that episode by episode and actually give you practical actions to put in your life to help you move forward.

DANIEL: So Matt talking about the f forwarding our way to action. Mm-hmm. Uh, we like to give an activity for people to do between episodes. Mm-hmm. Uh, because that's how you learn. Yeah. And, and actually you won't be able to get unstuck unless you do something between episodes to take the information into, apply it.

DANIEL: So what's our activity for today? Yeah. So we'd love

MATT: you to take a five minute stroll around the block and going back to Dan's excellent kind of analogy again. It's halftime. You are on the sidelines. The oranges have come out, and you are feeling like for some reason, in at least one domain of life, you are stuck.

MATT: Your team's not winning. You're really down on your own performance, and so we'd like you to just as, as uncomfortable as it may be, just stop and sit and think. About why you feel [00:28:00] stuck and where in life you feel most stuck. Yeah. So the why and the where. Yeah. And again, we are assuming that most people, myself included, have at least one area or domain where you even just kind of intuitively know that you're stuck.

MATT: And again, it's, it, it is like the risk is that it permeates, it bleeds through all other areas of life in terms of how you feel about your life as a whole. Yeah. So what's the cause of that for you? The why and the where do you feel stuck?

DANIEL: Yeah. And there's different levels of stuckness for different people.

DANIEL: Yeah. We don't want you to stay fixated or focusing on the area of stuckness over time, but for this first step, you do need to acknowledge. Yeah. Where you are stuck. Yes. Yeah. You need to reflect on the emotions and feelings that you have. E even if you can't quite articulate what they are. Mm. And, and maybe just sit in it.

DANIEL: So we don't want people to fix it or solve it, do we?

MATT: No. No. Yeah. And the city's only for five minutes. Like it's only a five minute exercise, mate. Like, yeah, exactly. You should

DANIEL: be, you shouldn't destroy, you shouldn't, let's, let's open doesn't undo you. Yeah. Yeah. But the key is to walk out of that [00:29:00] activity with a sense of, okay.

DANIEL: I am actually stuck in this area or this domain. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And maybe these are some of the feelings or experiences I have, and just that's enough. Yeah. That's it. Because then we're gonna walk you through what to do with that. Yes. Over the next nine episodes.

MATT: That's it. So that's gonna be like the raw material for the rest of this season.

DANIEL: Yeah. Now we say only five minutes, but actually five minutes is hard in the busyness of everyday life just to get your head into that space. So we love action triggers. Action triggers. So action triggers are when you preset in your mind, or even better in your calendar. A when and where. Mm-hmm. So where will you go and what will you do?

DANIEL: So the activity is what Matt's described, but basically pause for a moment. Don't turn off the podcast and think, when will you go for this five minute walk? You know, ideally outdoors. I find that helps. Mm-hmm. And when will you reflect on the questions that Matt's asked? Yeah, don't leave this podcast episode without at least having committed to yourself when and where you'll do that.

DANIEL: Yeah. And then you're gonna trigger that action. [00:30:00] In a more active way

MATT: and like we always say for bonus points, or I sing on cakes, maybe like talk to a friend about it as well. Start to do this in community in terms of, hey, this is when I'm gonna do it. Just like letting you know. So maybe you can ask me about just whether I actually did it afterwards as well.

DANIEL: So just to wrap up for this first episode of season three, we would love you to help us out or help yourself out actually, because remember. Travel with others is a pretty critical part of getting unstuck, and so you could help us, but help yourself. We would love you to share this episode.

MATT: Mm-hmm.

DANIEL: With a friend.

MATT: Yeah. And maybe the process, you'd actually be helping someone else as well. Absolutely.

DANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. So talk about this with a friend. Mm-hmm. Think about one or two people who you could talk about it with, because I mean, there's nothing like actually listening to this. Podcast with others and then talking about it and encouraging each other, talking about what the, what you've done and how you're actually making changes in your life.

DANIEL: And of course, if you're enjoying the Spacemaker podcast, well then we would love you to follow us on Apple, Spotify, or whatever platform you listen on. Please leave a review. It's super helpful. And if you're [00:31:00] watching on YouTube, we'll then please like, subscribe, and more importantly, leave a comment so that we can learn about.

DANIEL: What you like and we can reply to your comments along the way. So just to wrap up this episode, let's get back to the analogy of life being like a game and you are heading back on the field at halftime. I mean, what we would love to see for you from this entire podcast is for you to walk away feeling less stuck.

DANIEL: So for you to pick a domain of your life or an. Area of your life where things are a bit tough for you to make one or two very tangible, specific changes that are well thought out based on the research to build a habit in your life to actually move forward and feel like you have a sense of hope and meaning and purpose and direction again, even if you, you don't fix your problems in 10 weeks.

DANIEL: We definitely think that you can walk away making great progress. And so I'd love you to get back on the field, you know, with your head high, feeling confident that [00:32:00] you can play the game. You, you don't know how the game's gonna finish and you dunno how it's gonna end up, but you have hope and purpose and a plan for what it looks like to live and experience a great second.

DANIEL: Act. So we'd love you to journey with us and others over these next 10 episodes of our podcast to help you make space to get unstuck for a surprising second act.

MATT: So next week, Dan. Yes, I'm excited and I know you're excited 'cause we're gonna be unveiling what we call the five capitals of life. And critically this is gonna help people, ourselves included, identify.

MATT: What that one domain may be that they really wanna drill down and work on for the remainder of the pod course. Sounds good. Yeah.

DANIEL: But until next time, make space. See ya.

NARRATOR: The space makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

DANIEL: A special thank you to our amazing sponsors, Bulk Nutrients, banjos Bakery Cafes, and Blustone.

DANIEL: From our beautiful home state of Tasmania, the island of creativity, and of course, [00:33:00] space making.

NARRATOR: If you feel busy, overloaded, and struggling to keep up, the Spacemaker Dojo is here. To help. This online community is for busy professionals like you dedicated to making space together. For less than $75 a month, you can access our best selling courses like Email Ninja and Priority Samurai.

NARRATOR: Join live Zoom training sessions and share your learning with others. Dive into the Dojo to regain control of your time and make space in a supportive accountable community. Visit space makers au slash dojo to find out more. Until next time, make space.